OnCourse Software

The flight was ENTO to ESSB with the Q400.
Transition altitudes on both sides 7000 ft.
The flightplan (in attached zip together with the logfiles) contains SID and STAR.

Strange, that when cleared to climb FL130, after changed to another centre controller, the reply is: 'Roger, altitude 994'. Also strange, but that goes for almost every situation in PF3 that the VCP adds 'IFR' to his callout while above transition altidue. By my knowledge traffic above TA is ALWAYS IFR so to add 'IFR' is useless. I was so lucky to have had many jumpseat rides in the real world and I NEVER heard anyone using that IFR in callouts. Back to the problem I had.

The STAR contains altitude constraints but I've read somewhere that I must not edit that part of the flightplan. Since after loading the flightplan I can see that PF3 did not use the constraints from the plan that was loaded. I was puzzled. TEB50 has below 9000, then TEB36 with above 5000, then followed by above 2500 and finally the FAF at 2200.

Since there was silence from ATC at my VNAV active point, I asked for 9000 and got it. Then I asked for 5000 and got it. So far in harmony with the VNAV profile. But... to get on the ground I had to go lower after that. SUddenly ATC nagged me to stay at 5000, followed by absolute silence. So I landed the Q400 without haering anything further from ATC.

Next time I'll tell ATC to shut up until I'm on short final, but that is far from realism.

I sure hope one day PF3 can handle SIDs and STARs in a more realistic manner (by f.i. Navigraph). That might also solve the problem of planning a flight, load it in PF3 and then find out that the wind has changed (and the active RWY as well) at the destination airport.

Dirk

Quote:

Strange, that when cleared to climb FL130, after changed to another centre controller, the reply is: 'Roger, altitude 994'. Also strange, but that goes for almost every situation in PF3 that the VCP adds 'IFR' to his callout while above transition altidue. By my knowledge traffic above TA is ALWAYS IFR so to add 'IFR' is useless. I was so lucky to have had many jumpseat rides in the real world and I NEVER heard anyone using that IFR in callouts.

The reply from ATC was actually 'Altimeter is 2944' which was absolutely correct as your TA for that section of your flight was set to 18000

As for SIDs and STARs the best thing to do is NOT add them to your flight plan

dmarch wrote: *

Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:07 pm

As for SIDs and STARs the best thing to do is NOT add them to your flight plan

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply. I added the SID/STARS mainly for the variable length of them, hoping that PF3 takes that into account when giving descend orders and speed limits. If you take LFPO f.i., where the notherly STARs starts almost in Belgium, against smaller airport where the start of the STAR is very close. I'll leave them out from now on to see what happens.

After some time flying without PF3 (for learning to fly the Q400) I came back to it recently. Now flying the Q400 instead of The Duke, to my experience PF3 is rather late with the descend orders (especially when the VNAV TOD is in the neighbourhood of the start of the STAR) and early with the speed limits. I'll give it a try adjusting the parameters.

Dirk

By the way.....
I changed the Nordic sector into 7000 feet, which is the actual for Noway and Sweden if I may believe my EFB. That works fine. PF3 reports upon loading the flightplan both transitions at 7000. Somehow the old 180 comes into place, apperently.

PF3 of course knows nothing about your FMC's TOD or VNAV, and ATC may start you down before or after your FMC indicates start of descent. As you say, you can experiment with your saved profiles in PF3 and I have mine adjusted to where there is usually fairly close agreement between PF3 and my FMC in terms of when to start down. Even so there will always be some variability due to winds, etc.

If the STAR is very long I will often include some of the early waypoints in my PF3 flight plan and not the later ones. After your last PF3 waypoint you will be cleared at pilot's discretion (if you have STARs ticked) and you can cross the remaining STAR waypoints as published or however you want.

Thanks Dave. I'll give it a try.