OnCourse Software

Yesterday I loaded a flight plan, created on FSC (added SID and STAR) from LPPR to LPPT, and manually adjusted END of SID, start of STAR and waypoints altitudes at PF3.
After departing LPPR everything was normal, departure gave me instructions to “…resume pilot’s discretion…” until reached end of SID.
The first question is, when getting near LPPT, after tuning Approach of destination airport, when I press key “1 – request cleared to final at pilot’s discretion”, I’ve received the following message in remote text program – “This command is only available when in landing mode and IFR”. Why can’t PF3 give me this clearance?
The second question is, when I press key “2 – Request an Instrument approach” (still on approach) the message I saw in remote text program was as if I requested for an ACARS ATIS report for my destination airport…

Finally, it’s better to load a FSC flight plan to PF3 without SID’s and STAR’s, with only some intermediate waypoints and then define END of SID and start of STAR on PF3 OR to add all waypoints, inclusively the ones belonging to SID and STAR’s?

Unfortunately I cannot attached a log file, because I’m not at home

VCP mod 2.

Was your flight plan VFR?

vololiberista wrote:

Was your flight plan VFR?

No, it's IFR

Regarding SIDs and STARs, you can include SID and STAR waypoints in your PF3 flight plan but in most cases I do not include waypoints that are closer than 25 nm from the airports. This sometimes means the PF3 flight plan is a bit different from the FSC flight plan (I edit the pln file before loading into PF3). If you have the STAR option unticked (off) on the SID/STAR page, PF3 will begin issuing vectors to the active runway when you reach the last waypoint in your PF3 flight plan. If you have the STAR option ticked on the SID/STAR page, you will NOT receive vectors after your last PF3 waypoint. PF3 will assign a runway for landing and clear you to fly there at pilot's discretion, so you will need to navigate there on your own or use a published approach or runway transition. (I think FSC now allows you to add runway transitions and have the Autoheading function fly it, but you still need to handle the vertical navigation.)

Dan77 wrote:

Regarding SIDs and STARs, you can include SID and STAR waypoints in your PF3 flight plan but in most cases I do not include waypoints that are closer than 25 nm from the airports. This sometimes means the PF3 flight plan is a bit different from the FSC flight plan (I edit the pln file before loading into PF3). If you have the STAR option unticked (off) on the SID/STAR page, PF3 will begin issuing vectors to the active runway when you reach the last waypoint in your PF3 flight plan. If you have the STAR option ticked on the SID/STAR page, you will NOT receive vectors after your last PF3 waypoint. PF3 will assign a runway for landing and clear you to fly there at pilot's discretion, so you will need to navigate there on your own or use a published approach or runway transition. (I think FSC now allows you to add runway transitions and have the Autoheading function fly it, but you still need to handle the vertical navigation.)

Hello Dan
Tonight I going to make a new flight plan in FSC (IFR), from LPPT to LPFR only with 2 or 3 waypoints (as you suggested >25 nm from an airport), then load to PF3, and manually set END of SID and Start of STAR.
When start descending, and after the last flight plan waypoint, I’ going to ask approach “1 – request cleared to final at pilot’s discretion” and see if it still remains “This command is only available when in landing mode and IFR”.
Why can’t PF3 flight plan be the same as the FSC flight plan? What do you usually edit on your .pln file before loading to PF3?
If I make a flight plan from LPMA-LPPS (+/-31 nm), you wouldn’t recommend any waypoint?

cteixeira wrote:

Tonight I going to make a new flight plan in FSC (IFR), from LPPT to LPFR only with 2 or 3 waypoints (as you suggested >25 nm from an airport), then load to PF3, and manually set END of SID and Start of STAR.
When start descending, and after the last flight plan waypoint, I’ going to ask approach “1 – request cleared to final at pilot’s discretion” and see if it still remains “This command is only available when in landing mode and IFR”.

Why can’t PF3 flight plan be the same as the FSC flight plan? What do you usually edit on your .pln file before loading to PF3?
If I make a flight plan from LPMA-LPPS (+/-31 nm), you wouldn’t recommend any waypoint?

To request a "cleared to finals" (key 1) you must have already been issued landing runway by approach.

If you are going to use a SID on your departure (select end of sid in your PF3 flightplan page OR select an "altitude completed" number on the SIDS/STARS page AND tick "SID active" for the individual airport. Or you can use both methods combined), there is no need to have the SID waypoints in your flightplan. ATC will tell you to fly your SID and will pick you up ("continue own navigation" once your SID is complete.

If flying a STAR there is more than one option:

1 ...You want to fly a STAR but get vectors at the end of the STAR
2... You want to fly a STAR and a published approach to line up with the ILS/runway (no vectors)

With 1. you should have your STAR waypoints in your PF3 flightplan; select "start of STAR" in the PF3 flightplan page; DO NOT select "STARS ACTIVE" in the PF3 SIDS STARS page.

With 2. you should have your STAR waypoints in the flightplan, but not the approach waypoints as these will invariably be too close together and too close to the airport which may confuse PF3. Select "start of STAR" in the flightplan page but this time tick the box for STARS active in the SIDS/STARS page. You should then be told to fly your STAR and when you have reached the end of STAR/beginning of approach you will be told to fly your approach yourself (cleared to finals). If you have those approach waypoints in your PF3 plan, you wont be told to fly them!

With the old program PFE problems could occur when your last waypoint was too close to the arrival airport (under 20 nm for example), but with PF3 and the work Dave has done I actually find this is less of an issue now. I have flown approaches where the beginning of the approach is at the airport itself and not had problems, so you can experiment. But if you have too many STAR/approach waypoints in your plan that are close to each other and the airport you may experience problems which is why Dan advises that you drop these from the plan you use for PF3

Peter

Hello
Everything was fine with last flight from LPPT to LPFR.
Thanks for all your recommendations.
PF3 gives a lot more immersion on flightsim experience.