OnCourse Software

Hi everyone.

Love PFE, but I do have a problem that I have not seen in any posts.

I use FSCommander to produce a flight plan. I save that, and open PFE, select convert to ProFlight2000, open ProFlight2000 and compile. Load the adventure file into PFE. That all works fine.

The problem I have is that the adventure flight plan that is generated is different to the original FsCommander flight plan! Mostly, missing waypoints? Sometimes I also get different cruise altitudes! The print out (for the FMC manual input in LevelD 767), is different to the flight plan that is shown in FSC!

It is a bit frustrating to have the flight plan shown in FSC, but I am flying a different route? And the route in ActiveSky2012 is also the original FSC flight plan, which is different to the ProFlight200 compiled plan!

So? Why does ProFlight2000 (or is it the conversion of the flight plan to PFE format?) change the original flight plan?

Whilst I am here, I will mention another "bug"! Taxi instructions (and the TGS display), at Gatwick (EGKK) are always wrong if using 08R. It insists on sending me into a hangar in the total opposite direction to the runway! I get around it by ignoring the TGS, and then manually tuning to Tower at the threshold, and requesting take-off clearance (option 6). Thank goodness I have FSC, or I would be completely "lost" at Gatwick! LOL!

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Terry,

Yes, PF2000 will make various changes to the flight plan. It may drop waypoints if they are too close to the departure/destination airports or if too close together. If you go back into the PFE 'convert' options you'll see another option 'Adjust FS FPlan for PF2000', which will ensure the two are in sync.

Hope that helps

Hi Dave.

Thanks again for the support. We have been in touch before!

I do use the 'Adjust FS FPlan for PF2000'. That is where the problem seems to occur? What does the "adjust FS FPlan for PF2000" actually do? Then I may understand more?

I did read through some posts, and the manual, and I do understand that PF2000 may adjust some waypoints that are too close together! That I understand! It is mentioned in the manual. The different flight levels are a bit difficult to explain though!

For example. EGKK to LESG. FsCommander gives a flight level of FL330. After a compile in ProFlight2000, I get given a flight level of FL270, for a distance of about 200NM! But! Even though the flight plan that is printed out from ProFlight2000 shows FL270, I get atc instructions, in PFE, to climb to FL330? So? PFE and ProFlight2000 are not "sharing" the same info?

I am not complaining, but want to pass on the info.

And about the crazy TGS at Gatwick?

Any ideas?

Dave, I am not complaining, merely passing on info.

If you are not told, then you will have nothing to work on!

I do not want to have to go back to the renewed RealAtc, because that was a lot worse than PFE!

I also have to admit that PFE does not handle AI very well (common with all the alternate FSX atc replacements!), and PFE AI chatter does not always correspond with the "actual" AI traffic, unless it is within a few NM? PFE is spot on with any AI traffic that is close by though! I do get alerts of nearby traffic, and it is pretty accurate! Ground AI is a bit of a pain though, LOL! But I do understand the intricacies of ground AI! That is a well known problem , but one that RealATC has promised to address!

Dave! I am not complaining. PFE is by far the best, in my opinion!

Can you make it better though?

And can you explain why PFE and ProFlight200 do not share the same info?

Rgds

Terry

Hi Terry,

There is an explanation in the manual (page 136) detailing what the 'adjust FS FP' option does, rather than me repeat it here. If it's not working as described I'd like to see your original flightplan, the PF2000 generated GPS file, the original converted PFE file and the PFE file after running the 'adjust FP' option. Please email them all.

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For example. EGKK to LESG. FsCommander gives a flight level of FL330. After a compile in ProFlight2000, I get given a flight level of FL270

When you say you are given a FL of 270, when and how?

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Even though the flight plan that is printed out from ProFlight2000 shows FL270, I get atc instructions, in PFE, to climb to FL330?

So PFE is correct and it the PF2000 FP which is incorrect?

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And about the crazy TGS at Gatwick?

What airport scenery are you using? Did you rebuild the PFE database after installing it? PFE can only work with the data available and IF there is some bad taxiway point data somewhere then that is the only reason I can see how this would/could happen. Have you tried with the default scenery?

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I also have to admit that PFE does not handle AI very well

PFE does NOT handle AI traffic at all, it can only 'react' to it. There are NO ATC programs that 'handle' AI traffic, it is always handles by the FS engine.

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PFE AI chatter does not always correspond with the "actual" AI traffic, unless it is within a few NM?

An example please.... remembering the previous point, what you hear could be late.

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Ground AI is a bit of a pain though

Same issue I think. PFE does NOT control AI traffic and only reacts to it. PFE can only tell an aircraft to takeoff once that aircraft is in takeoff mode, which is when it starts rolling. It would be possible to make PFE react even quicker to AI traffic movements but only at the expense of making another process more sluggish. I believe we have the balance just right... but then I would.

AI chatter was never meant to be used for plane spotting, it is merely for the immersive element.

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That is a well known problem , but one that RealATC has promised to address!

The only way I can ever see that happening is if they are able to turn the AI traffic engine OFF altogether. But then can you imagine how mush processing time would need to be passed over to the program to handle all those events. And I really have to ask myself, would it be worth it?

Hi Dave.

I will get the details (flight plans) to you as soon as I can, but work beckons during the week!

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When you say you are given a FL of 270, when and how?

The FL270 is on the printed flight plan, printed from PF2000.

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So PFE is correct and it the PF2000 FP which is incorrect?

Correct!

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What airport scenery are you using? Did you rebuild the PFE database after installing it? PFE can only work with the data available and IF there is some bad taxiway point data somewhere then that is the only reason I can see how this would/could happen. Have you tried with the default scenery?

I am using FSGlobal 2010, and I have run MakeRwys and done a database rebuild. No, I have not tried the default scenery! I guess that just involves deselecting the FSGlobal scenery in the FSX scenery manager, and then running MakeRwys again and another database rebuild? . This problem only seems to occur at EGKK. Heathrow and Manchester are fine, and PFE even recognises the "new" runways at Manchester (06L/R and 24L/R!). The FSX default scenery is wrong for Manchester

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PFE AI chatter does not always correspond with the "actual" AI traffic, unless it is within a few NM?


An example please.... remembering the previous point, what you hear could be late.

FsCommander shows all the AI traffic, with the Airline, tail numbers, height, speed, etc, within a range of about 60NM ( I have never actually noticed the range that AI aircraft show up in FsCommander, so that is just a rough guess!). I hear the FSX ATC calling out the correct aircraft in the area, but PFE seems to be rather random, giving AI chatter from aircraft that are not showing in FSCommander, but occassionally it does, and it does give proximity warnings nearly correctly, and in time! I say "nearly" correctly, because, although FSCommander shows the AI altitude, PFE sometimes says "height unknown"? Random AI chatter is deselected in PFE! I beg to differ with you that AI chatter is not meant to be used for plane spotting. It is a major part of the immersive element, to see and here the aircraft around you? FsCommander gets it right, and FSX ATC gets it right, calling out the aircraft in the surrounding area of where I am! I will ask the question! Why does PFE not do that? Why is PFE random, and only warns when an AI aircraft is "proximity warning" range?

I do not know as much as you do, so I cannot comment on the AI interaction on the ground issue. I do get a little fed up of having to go across the grass because an AI aircraft is "stopped" on the taxiway I am going down . RealAtc have declared that they have a major update which will include full AI interaction on the ground! Sales Blurb?

I will get back to you with the flight plan details as soon as I can.

I think you have already correctly surmised that ProFlight is incorrect, and that PFE does follow the original flight plan!

This is fairly isolated though! Most times, both the printed "compiled" adventure file and the original flight plan are the same. It is just EGKK to LESG that seems to throw up the problem? It is one of my "regular" routes though, so it would be nice to get to the bottom of it!

Dave, these are minor niggles. I love PFE. I have tried a lot of other "alternate" atc programs, and PFE is by far the best, in my humble opinion!

If you could somehow integrate PFE and ProFlight into one single program, that would be nice! It would be nice to just select a flight plan and fly it, without the rigmarole of going through a compile and loading an adventure file!

Best Rgds.

Terry

Hi Dave.

Emailed you.

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Dave.

I have not received any confirmation or reply to my email? Did you get my email?

I did a bit of research and had a think about why I get incorrect taxi guidance at EGKK?

You suggested that it may be some "add on" that has a broken link at EGKK?

I have looked into it, and I cannot see anything! FSGlobal does not change any airports or runways or taxiways. So it is definitely nothing to do with FsGlobal! I have had a look at EGKK with AFX, and all is normal! Taxiways are where they should be, no broken links or anything that I can see! I do have GEX installed, but again, that program does not alter any runways or taxiways! I also use MyTraffic 2013, but again, that does not alter runways or taxiways!

Hmm? But there is something that is strange? I only have those 3 programs installed, all of which say that they do not alter any runways/taxiways, but!

Something has altered the runways at Manchester EGCC! They are now correct!

I am at a bit of a loss! Every airport that I have been to in Europe, the TGS has been exact, when it works!! Ok, I do get the occasional "taxi to terminal" at some, with no TGS!

It is only EGKK that I get the problem, although, as far as I can tell, non of my add ons actually change the original FSX EGKK? And it is not just that one runway! Every runway at EGKK, I get completely wrong TGS! Actually, any runway, the TGS insists on exactly the same route? Straight into the hangars north of EGKK!

I would like you to look into this. You are the expert.

Oh! And it is not RealAtc that has promised the major update and have AI traffic "controlled! It is ProAtcX! My mistake! Apologies to RealAtc!

Dave, I really do want to have the correct TGS at Gatwick (EGKK). Nothing that I have installed can possibly have changed the original FSX config for EGKK, or has it?

FSGlobal absolutely state that they do not effect runways or taxiways. GEX Europe also say the same thing! MyTraffic 2013 does not alter runways or taxiways!

Any ideas?

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Terry, yes I did receive the email but not had time to look into it. I will only try it with the default scenery because if it works with that it should work with any scenery provided the developers worked in accordance with MS FS SDK. We've obviously not tested it at every airport and every conceivable taxi route.... that would have been an impossible task.

Let's see what happens when I get around to checking it out. I will start from the same gate as you did according to your logs

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Hi Dave.

Next flight, I will try out a different gate. It may be just that gate that has a broken link, but AFX does show it as a valid link?

I will keep you posted!

Thanks!

Terry

It's a little more complicated than that. We rely on data generated by Makerwys. I'm not suggesting that's at fault and I guess it reads the bgl files, but i don't know. It would be interesting to see what happens from another gate though.

Thanks

Sent from my Dumbphone