OnCourse Software

Hi Dave.

I changed gates from gate 13 at Gatwick (EGKK) to gate 50. TGS worked fine!

I will have to take a deeper look, with AFX, at gate 13! There must be a broken link or node at gate 13?

Anyway, at least we sorted the immediate problem! I have saved the flight as gate 50 now, so I should not have any problems with TGS from now on!

Rgds.

Terry

Thanks for the feedback.

Hi Dave.

I did have a closer look at Gatwick with AFX.

As I suspected, although there is an apron path at gate 13, there are no apron path links from gate 13! Without the apron path link, there is no link to a taxiway?

I have sorted most of the other problems I queried with you. About the atc chatter, I just selected "use PFE AI based chatter" and now all the AI aircraft around are correctly identified!

About the wrong flight level on the ProFlight2000 printout, I have no idea! The printout still says FL270, but PFE instructs me to climb to FL330? I tried the "adjust FS FP for PF2000" and got exactly the same flight plan and printout!

I am now having a "play" with FsBuild, to see what that gives me.

Summary.

1. Start FS.
2. Create a flight plan.
3. Start PFE.
4. If necessary use PFE to Convert the flight plan for ProFlight 2000 ((not required if you use a flight planner like FsBuild).
5. Start ProFlight 2000, select your flight plan and compile it.
6. Close ProFlight.
7. From PFE select the ADV flight file just created in step #5
8. From PFE select connect to FS.
9 Enjoy your flight.

If only it was that simple!

Step 5 is the problem!

ProFlight2000 does not recognise the FsBuild flight plan, and the compile button is greyed out?

I am still playing, but it has been 2 days of trying all the workarounds that I can possible find, but none of them work! ProFlight2000 does see the flight plan generated by FsBuild, in FS2000/FSX format, and not FSX.xml format!

I wonder, when you get the time, if you could give me a "walk through"? How to get FsBuild and PFE to accept each other? For your info, the flight plans that are produced by FsBuild work with both ActiveSky and FsCommander, and are exactly the same!

I am trying to get to the bottom of this, not because I am upset or disappointed with PFE (PFE is by far the best), but for the sake of the community.

I am fairly active on other forums, and I have helped to resolve quite a lot of problems with other programs! I used to use REX, and there was a major problem running REX networked between a win 7 win 8 setup! REX themselves could not find the problem, but acknowledged it! I solved the problem, and was then even offered a job with them! . I declined though, because I just want to fly in my spare time, not to spend all my time solving problems!

I do "give up" some of my spare time to help the community though, when I can!

I hope that you can help me to get PFE to accept FsBuild flight plans!

Anyway, nice that we got some things sorted! .

And your support is by far the best amongst all the forums I have been on. Keep up the good work.

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Dave.

Finally got it!

Phew! That took a lot of sorting out!

I created a flight plan in FsBuild, but I had to edit the FsBuild2 config file to FS2004_PLN=C\USERS\TERRY\DOCUMENTS\FLIGHT SIMULATOR X FILES

I have to manually point ProFlight 2000 to c\users\terry\documents\flight simulator x files, every time, and then ProFlight2000 happily compiles a very close flight plan. It "drops" a couple of waypoints, but that I know about already!

Still "playing"!

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Dave.

Just did a short flight from EGKK to EHAM.

PFE was flawless!



Phew, it has been hard work, and still a couple of minor problems to get sorted out, but I am getting there!

FsCommander does not show the same flightplan, quite, but close enough!

AI is now spot on, and the flight plan is pretty close! ProFlight2000 print out is now almost the same as the original FsBuild!

Now I just have to figure out how to get PFE to remember the default flight plan location?

Not a great problem though.

Very happy now .

Rgds.

Terry.

Hi Dave.

Sorry to bother you again, but I will try out the EGKK to LEBL, with the new FsBuild set up, when I get the chance, and I will report back to you.

Rgds.

Terry

Terry2905 wrote:

Hi Dave.

Finally got it!

Phew! That took a lot of sorting out!

I created a flight plan in FsBuild, but I had to edit the FsBuild2 config file to FS2004_PLN=C\USERS\TERRY\DOCUMENTS\FLIGHT SIMULATOR X FILES

I have to manually point ProFlight 2000 to c\users\terry\documents\flight simulator x files, every time, and then ProFlight2000 happily compiles a very close flight plan. It "drops" a couple of waypoints, but that I know about already!

Hi Terry,

I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere about setting up FSBuild, sorry if it's not, but I used to use FSBuild all the time with no problem, once you tell it what type of plan you require.

Why are you manually pointing PF2000 to you FSBuild flight plans? PFE should be looking there as its SOURCE location and converting the files and sending them to the FS2000\Pilots folder as its TARGET location, where PF2000 will automatically be looking/ I think you may have over complicated things and found a solution to a non existing problem.

Quote:

As I suspected, although there is an apron path at gate 13, there are no apron path links from gate 13! Without the apron path link, there is no link to a taxiway?

There ya go! Well done for finding it. I assume you've corrected it and now you get taxi instructions?

Quote:

I have sorted most of the other problems I queried with you. About the atc chatter, I just selected "use PFE AI based chatter" and now all the AI aircraft around are correctly identified!

Ah ha! Forgot about that option. So you were using the default PF2K canned chatter. Sorry I forgot that.

Hi Dave.

As I have had no reply to my emails to you, I thought I would follow up on here.

I am still having lots of problems, and having to use too many workarounds to get the same flight plan that is produced by either fsbuild or fscommander to work with PFE!

As things stand, I produce a flight plan in fsbuild (because I prefer that to fscommander), which saves a flight plan into FSC and FSX folders. Anyway, the flight plan loads into fscommander fine, exactly as is produced by fsbuild. However, when I compile the flight plan with proflight2000, it adjusts the original altitudes, and drops an awful of the 1st waypoints, but not many of the later (approach) waypoints?

To get everything to coincide (fscommander mainly), I print out the flight plan produced by Proflight2000, and then have to delete the waypoints that are showing in fscommander, that are not shown in the proflight2000 plan!

To be honest, is all a bit messy, and something that the developers should be looking into seriously!

To put it into simple terms? FsBuild produces a "reasonable" flight plan. FsCommander loads that "exactly" as is produced by FsBuild. ActiveSky2012 also loads the "exact" flight plan that is produced by FsBuild. PFE does not, or rather, ProFlight200 "produces" a totally different flight plan (adventure file)!

PFE is beyond any shadow of doubt the very best "alternate" FSX ATC, but why cannot it just import a flight plan rather than an adventure file produced (wrongly) by ProFlight2000?

It seems to me that ProFlight2000 is the main culprit? It takes an original flight plan, and adjusts the original altitudes, drops loads of waypoints close to each (but only those at the departure airport?), and PFE itself does not always follow the altitudes that are produced by ProFlight2000?

I actually do not "get it"? Why does PFE only support ProFlight2000 produced flight plans? Is there no way of having a "standalone" PFE?

Now that would be really good!

Having to go through ProFlight2000 to produce a compatible PFE flight plan, which is completely different to the original flight plan produced by either FsCommander, or FsBuild, is really not on!

The other "bug" I mentioned to you, about resuming a flight after landing and then loading a new flight plan? That happens every time! PFE tries to vector me for an approach back to the departure airport after take off! Dispatch tells me to "climb to FL800, for example", but then PFE tells me to descend to FL300 and vectors me back to the approach from the departure airport? If I ignore it, and climb to the departure altitude, and follow the flight plan, PFE "catches up" eventually!

May I summarise?

FsBuild, or Fscommander, both produce an FSX compatible flight plan (which are recognised by each other, and also by ActiveSky and by all my other odd on's). Why do we have to go through the "rigmarole" of ProFlight2000 producing it's own flight plan, which is completely different to the original, both in altitudes and waypoints?

Why can we not just import a flight plan? Why does it "have to be" a ProFlight2000 flight plan, which it totally incompatible with anything other than PFE? And which is "wrong"!

So? Where are we going with PFE?

I like PFE. It is very "immersive", more realistic than any other "alternate" ATC. I love the atc chatter, the voices, and I love the TGS! That is amazing! Yeah! I know! I have FsCommander, so I can find my way around any airport, but having taxi directions, that are actually spot on, is a big plus!

PFE is so close to being the perfect "alternate ATC", but also very flawed? If you could get rid of ProFlight2000 producing totally different flight plans to the original, it would be great?

I may even be "barking up the wrong tree"? I fly IFR all the time? Maybe PFE is only for VFR? Is that why the option of a gps plan is in there? I also only fly the LevelD 767, which does not support importing a flight plan? I have to manually input the flight plan into the FMC.

Ooh! I am getting more and more frustrated! It should be so simple?

PFE, standalone, that imports .pln files? How hard can that be to implement easily? FsCommander does! FsBuild does. ActiveSky does. RealAtc does. ProAtcX does!

C,mon?

Why is the very best "alternate" ATC program not compatible with .pln files? Why does it have to "build/compile" it's own flight plan?

I can put up with the bugs of "wrong approaches", "change of runway", wrong approach altitudes, etc, etc, because I actually do fly! I do not "expect" the right approaches! I know that is too complex for any program to be able to do! I do manual approaches quite often, with PFE, and I have to admit that PFE handles that very well! I am amazed that it actually recognises that I have done a manual approach, and still recognises that I am actually on the ILS, and clears me for landing!

I do not know the "in's and out's" of the contractual obligation to ProFlight2000? That is really where the problem lies? ProFlight2000 and PFE are not compatible? In one of your replies, you suggested the exact same thing? I quote. "So, PFE is correct, but ProFlight2000 is wrong"? That was to do with the files I sent to you! ProFlight2000 showed a different altitude to what PFE commanded me to climb to? How can that be?

I actually will still use PFE, with all the workarounds, and "adjustments" that have to be made. It has become part of my pre-flight preparations! I would prefer to just produce a flight plan and have PFE "import" it though! Just the same way as Fscommander and ActiveSky, and FSX itself actually does!

Bottom line? Why does PFE not just "import" a .pln file? Why does it have to be "adjusted" (wrongly), by ProFlight2000?

Food for thought maybe? Make PFE standalone? It really is to do with ProFlight2000. That is where the problem comes in! You already "queried" it with me! PFE itself does not "actually" follow the flight plan that is produced by ProFlight2000? ProFlight2000 gives a cruise altitude of XXX, but PFE ignores it and gives me a different cruise altitude? I already showed you that in the files I sent to you!

How on earth am I meant to plan my flight, to calculate my fuel loads, calculate my cruise altitude speeds, when the ProFlight2000 printed plan, and PFE, and the original flight plan produced by FsBuild, do not coincide?

Do you see the dilemma?

ProFlight2000 messes everything up!

I have spent many hours of producing a program for fuel burn calculations based on the actual BA 767 50 cost index! How can I do my fuel calculations when ProFlight2000 gives me wrong altitudes?

I think you already know that I am not a "dunce"! I already figured out why PFE gives the wrong taxi guidance at EGKK gate 13. I really do not have the time, nor the inclination to "alter" the taxiway links for gate 13! I will use gate 50. That works fine! I think that will be enough info for anyone who uses PFE! Use gate 50 at EGKK and the TGS works fine!

I do not know if I have actually told you about my "set up"?

I use a 4 monitor setup for FSX. FSX itself runs on the server, but that is also networked to a laptop (client), which runs ActiveSky, PFE, and FsCommander via simconnect and wideFs! I am not a "newbie"! I have helped lots of people to sort out their problems! I even had a bit of a "run in" with Pete Dawson about simconnect, and proved him wrong!

Anyway, I am going off track!

Getting back to the main problem? ProFlight2000? I follow you when you quote that ProFlight2000 will "drop" some waypoints that are too close. I still don't get it though, when all the other flight planners can do it? And? Why does Proflight2000 alter the cruise altitudes?

I cannot calculate my fuel load if ProFlight2000 gives me the wrong altitudes! By that, I mean, different altitudes to what PFE instructs me to fly, contrary to the ProFlight200 flight plan, and different altitudes of what I already calculated from fsbuild?

From what I can see, Proflight2000 is the "culprit"? It "adjusts" the original flight plan, and that flight plan is actually different to the PFE "adventure" file?

I do hope that you can get the developers to get this sorted. It should be fairly simple? Either relax the restrictions that ProFlight2000 imposes (altitudes and waypoints), or a standalone PFE?

PFE has bugs. So does the original FSX ATC, and RealAtcX, and VoxAtc, and proatc/x!

Vatsim is out the question for me, because of my slow internet, and my location! There are no "controllers" available most of the time!

I am almost "begging" you to get this sorted. PFE is by far the very best, but still a long way to go yet to be the "one"!

If you could somehow get PFE to be standalone, and accept .pln files, without Proflight2000 altering the original flight plan?

Food for thought?

I will however still use PFE. Despite all the problems, the TGS is really good. The "realism", is really good. It still outweighs all the other programs out there, but it does need to be sorted! If you can "drop" the ProFlight2000 compile program that is linked to it, and just allow to import a .pln flight plan? It would almost be unbeatable! So close and yet so far?

Rgds.

Terry

Hi Terry!

Maybe you can import the adjusted FP back into FS Commander and print it from there?
This way you would see what PFE writes to disk, though I'm not sure if this is different from what PF2000 shows.

Yes, a standalone PFE would be great, but I assume that large parts of the ATC knowlege of PFE is still imported from PF2000 and not coded into PFE, so this would be a major rewrite.

Regards,
Thomas