OnCourse Software

Hi Volo,

I don't have the program so I don't know how you setup an aircraft profile to keep PF3 happy.

But from what I've read so far it seems you have to workaround the requirements to keep the program happy. In that respect it's not much different to RC4.

In 100nm Concorde might only climb 200ft but could descent from FL430 to FL140 so you can see how different it is compared to other aircraft. It almost needs its own ATC program but that wouldn't be commercially viable.

Hi Ray,

Welcome to the forum

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I can't set waypoint altitudes because I can't guarantee I will reach that altitude.

The only altitude PF3 is really concerned about you reaching is your cruise, so you should always bear that in mind. PF3 is basically event driven and hitting your cruise triggers a lot of 'what happens next'

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Will PF3 nag me if I fail to maintain a minimum climb rate?

No, not at all. The way PF3 works in this area is once you are given instructions to climb or descend ATC will check periodically if you are actually climbing/descending, if you are they're happy and can get back to playing dominoes, if not you will be reminded - except of course if you are instructed to descend at pilot's discretion, in which case the nag time you set in the options are doubled and it's really only there in case you forget! Like I've done before now!

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So if I file FL600 (which is required for FS Labs Concorde) and don't reach it before it's time to start the descent procedure you are suggesting I'll not get nagged unduly? That's encouraging.

If you don't reach it you won't have a good flight! I would strongly suggest you enter a cruise altitude which you know you can always hit, then once you reach it you request a higher altitude from ATC. With all the testing we've done the recommended way to achieve the best climb profile is to leave the waypoint altitudes exactly as PF3 creates them up to and including your TOC, that is with your cruise altitude set at your very first waypoint, even if that is only 5 miles from your departure airport. ATC will take care of step climbs.

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What about the descent? Does PF3 calculate when you need to start down or do you request it?

Yes, PF3 does calculate your TOD but with Concorde you can safely reduce your speed at any time without getting nagged... ATC are fully aware of the complexities of flying such a bird.

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I suppose what I'm asking for is a special procedure just for Concorde.

Well I know our very own Dave L uses Concorde a lot and he seems to do so without any such issues. Personally I've never flown it (I've been on it ) but I get travel sick just pushing my chair back from the desk too fast these days!

Hi Dave,

Thanks for all the answers and the welcome. It sounds like I have to create a profile for each aircraft including Concorde. PF3 then uses that profile to issue appropriate instructions.

It's encouraging that PF3 is not as picky as RC4 regarding climb and descent rates.

I'm currently enroute from EGCC to LPPT with Concorde and RC4 just to remind myself how it behaves.

Couple of other questions. Can PF3 control taxiing Ai aircraft that might cause you to go-around if one happened to taxi onto the landing runway? And is it aware of Ai ahead and behind you when taxiing out to the active runway? Would it, for example, tell you you are number 4 for departure?

I'm envious that you've flown on Concorde. I could kick myself for not shelling out for a sub-sonic flight but money was a bit tight in those days. I imagine the experience remains fresh in your mind.

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It sounds like I have to create a profile for each aircraft including Concorde. PF3 then uses that profile to issue appropriate instructions.

No, you don't HAVE to setup a profile at all. As I said earlier, just leave the flight plan waypoint altitudes exactly as they are if you wish, although it's probably best to ensure the last last couple are going to have you down to a suitable altitude for your approach, other than that PF3 will take care of the rest. Once you reach your cruise altitude (remember I said that was important) PF3 will then begin to calculate your TOC dependant on your speed and will continue to do so periodically.

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Can PF3 control taxiing Ai aircraft that might cause you to go-around if one happened to taxi onto the landing runway?

That shouldn't happen.

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And is it aware of Ai ahead and behind you when taxiing out to the active runway?

Well it's certainly aware of aircraft within a specific range in front of you. PF3 has a new system which we call the Conflict Monitor and provided you use the Taxi Guidance System the Conflict Monitor should keep any aircraft from conflicting with you during your taxi to/from the runway.

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Would it, for example, tell you you are number 4 for departure?

Not yet but it does tell you which number you are for landing

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I'm envious that you've flown on Concorde.

I think my actual words were

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I've never flown it (I've been on it)

it was at Duxford !!

Enjoy your flight

RayProudfoot wrote:

Hi Volo,

I don't have the program

Uummm Ray? Welcome to the 21st Century hint hint hint

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate that Ai should not taxi onto a landing runway but it does happen unless specific actions are taken by the program to prevent it. I had an incursion on my approach to 03 at Lisbon and was advised to go around. It's very difficult for ATC programs to control Ai because they really do have a mind of their own. RC4 is good but not infallible. I'm guessing PF3 would have the same problem.

And of course it's difficult to assess a program purely through dialogue. I'll hold off for the time being as I can tweak RC4 to give me close to what I need for Concorde.

Thanks for your input and good luck with the program.

Misunderstood you about being on Concorde. I did the Technical Tour of AC when it was outdoors at Manchester. Very enjoyable but so sad it's no longer flying.

Volo, I'm flying a 20th century aircraft so I suppose I need a 20th century program.

RayProudfoot wrote:

Hi Dave,

Volo, I'm flying a 20th century aircraft so I suppose I need a 20th century program.

Well Ray, I fly the Super VC10! Now that the beta testing of PF3 is more or less over I can get back to finishing off the manuel for my VC10 panel update which will ready in March. In the mean time I'm going to attempt a couple of videos of PF3 for people to get a taste so to speak. Just finished splicing a Chinese code share cabin announcement for one of the intended vids.

Hi Volo,

Lovely aircraft. Look forward to seeing the video plus reviews of PF3. These programs are notoriously difficult to produce but it's good to see another one on the market.

RayProudfoot wrote:

Hi Volo,

Lovely aircraft. Look forward to seeing the video plus reviews of PF3. These programs are notoriously difficult to produce but it's good to see another one on the market.

We were at it pretty much every day for almost 6 months.

Hi Ray,
tend to set an altitude of FL540 for my cruises to USA or Canada and once i hit Max climb early on she tends to get to FL450+ without any nags from ATC, might get a reminder to climb to FL540 if i've been on same flight level for a while if she's being a little slow in climbing..but soon as ATC knows you are climbing, you get left alone..even 50FPM