OnCourse Software

It seems, as has been said, that if I don't ask for altitude changes en route, I don't have a problem... at least so far.

Otherwise, I just took off from OPRN en route for VNKT. Another airport (Islamabad) where TGS thinks the runway is somewhere in the middle of the parking apron... MakeRunways is doing something odd. And then when I take off ATC directs me towards my filed flight path and then, when I am on it, turns me away again. 15 seconds later, when I am still turning away, ATC comes on again to direct me back to the flight path, a turn of 90 degs by then. The poor virtual passengers! I wish I could get to the bottom of this, as this is in a 'low tech' A310 - no CDU or whatever and I certainly have no SIDs programmed. My first waypoint is 60 miles from the departure airport... Is the fault somewhere in the PFE_*** flight plan? Ho hum ....

You mention makerwys as done something funny,in what way??

Have you ran makerwys again and rebuild the PFE database,if so you will need to create your flightplan again.

How are you guiding your aircraft along the route,is it using standard MSFS gauges and autopilot or what?

Well, Dave M said that TGS uses the data created by MakeRunways, so are those files responsible for PFE ATC thinking runways are in these odd places? I assumed so. I haven't run the programme again or rebuilt the PFE database, as I only did that 2 days ago and haven't added anything since then to my FS9 scenery...

As for the vectoring, I usually hand fly to a certain altitude, then engage the AP and use the HDG dial to follow PFE ATC instructions, which direct me towards the flight path. As I approach, ATC tells me to turn and this lines me up more or less with the flight path. When I am about lined up, I engage LNAV. Then (though not every time) ATC vectors me away; usually within 30 seconds at most, I am turned back again towards the flight path. There are no SIDs or waypoints that I can see anywhere close to where I am being sent.. I would ignore the instruction to turn off the flight path, but ATC keeps insisting if I do that..

Quite possible of course, being new to this (though I think I have the hang of it pretty much by now), that I am making a mistake somewhere, but I have no idea where or how.

Martin



1. ATC do NOT vector you to your flight path, they vector you towards your first waypoint. What you might see as your "flight path" on your aircraft Nav display is not relevant. You are still under ATC control and you should let them vector you according to the departure coding that is built into to the sim, until such point as they tell you to navigate. If you dont want to be vectored then choose the SID option for departure.

2. If you have not yet reached the first waypoint in your flightplan, and you do not have a SID programmed in your FMC, you do not have a "flight path". You will only have an arbitrary line drawn from the runway to the first waypoint.

Peter

ATC do NOT vector you to your flight path, they vector you towards your first waypoint.

Yes, I know: I'm not expecting them to vector me to a random point on the line between the airport and first waypoint (needless to say)... That said, what they do do of course is, if I approach the 'line from the airport to the 1st. waypoint' at a slight angle, say half-way along it, as I get close they tell me to turn in order to have me flying along that line, so that I am on the correct heading for waypoint 1. Which is what FS9 ATC did too, quite correctly.

So, OK, I should maybe have said that ATC vectors me away from the straight line from airport to first waypoint- but which, of course, once I am flying along it is by definition the shortest route to that first waypoint. So doesn't it amount to the same thing? Why then would ATC, having just given me the correct heading for waypoint 1, be turning me away again once I am flying directly towards it, only to turn me back again (to the straight line) 15-30" later? There's nothing on the flight plan to justify such a change in course (as one can easily see on the FMC in a PMDG 747/737, for instance).

I wish you could see what is happening. Maybe I should make a video ...

Hi Martin,

I'm not at all certain why you're having the vectoring problem but for one of the flight plans that has given you trouble, you might try creating a new flight plan from scratch and see if that makes any difference. You mentioned that you had around 1600 old flight plans, and "Half the plans came up as not needing conversion and the rest did. They were all made with FSNav then exported to FS9." It might not be relevant at all but I think it makes sense to try creating a new plan just to see what happens. (Just a suggestion.)

Dan

I'll try that Dan, though the plans which needed changing and those that didn't look exactly the same in their PFE_ format. Next time I have this problem I'll make a new plan and see if the PFE file looks (and acts) any different.

Martin,

I have been using PFE for almost two years and it has been working fine. let me give you some tips.

1. In PFE options 1 select make sure to check "easy ATC instructions". If you don't check it(in case of a non SID departure), ATC will ask you to turn to intercept the flight path which is a direct line between the airport and the first waypoint and expect you to turn to join the flight path. If you check it, then it will tell you when to turn to join.

2. Open the PF2000's( the older program) setting and change the FAF to your on liking. I use 11nm, so I wouldn't get vectored too high and too close the runway.

3. In PF2000 main menu, set your plane's Specs. The maker and type(in your case 737) and set the mach speed, I use .80. Also, set the climb rate( I use 3500 FPM) and the descent rate ( I use 3000 FPM).

4. Now, get a flight plan with no SID and STARS for now. I use Vroute which is freeware and it is routes start at the end of SID and end at STARS points. If you are using FSnav, just convert it( I don't think you need to with Fsnav flightplans) and compile the adventure.

5. Adjust it and save it as PFE_XXXXtoXXXX. Then, adjust the altitudes.

6. The most important thing is to do is when you are loading your route in the FMC, double check you route with PFE's flightplan. Because as you might know PFE deletes some of the waypoints in the plan and delete the missing waypoints in PFE's flightplan from your route. If you don't and you miss a waypoint, you will get the no decent insructions. Also, during your flight alwways use the "9" command to get a position report and confirm you haven't missed a waypoint.

As, mentioned by other posters, never use the change cruise altitude command, unless you are comfortable with descending on your own( you can do that by descending to 14000ft and you will get approach and assigned runway). Always use the altitude adjust for step climbs.

I hope this helps.


Cheers

Thanks very much for that I'll read it all carefully.

Meanwhile, I have just flown from VNKT to VQPR and ATC was perfect all the way, no odd vectoring at all. I've compared the flight plan with the previous one I flew, which gave vectoring problems, but I can't see any fundamental difference.

OK, I have done the following, as per 1-6 above:

1. I am happy to have ATC expect me to turn to join the 'flight path' (or the line from airport to 1st.waypoint!), but have activated Easy ATC to see what happens. I can always change it back of course!
2. Changed FAF to 11 NM, as you suggest.
3. Yes, I do this anyway. I prefer less steep climbs and descents (have set 2400 climb and 2000 descent).
4. Ditto ... I don't usually fly with SID/STARs
5. Yes, same. I always adjust a new adv to the flight plan altitude and check waypoints look right.
6. When you say 'double check you route with PFE's flightplan', you mean the one in the Pilots folder with the PFE_ prefix? There might be a difference then in the number of waypoints in the FS9 flight plan and the PFE_ version? If PFE only deletes waypoints though, then surely I shouldn't miss any of them when I follow the FS9 plan, as entered into the CDU; I might fly through a few extra ones en route, but that shouldn't matter I guess.... I haven't tried the '9' command yet. Will use it next flight to check position.

Changing cruise altitude is achieved with the Request Lower/Higher altitude (turbulence/clouds)? So I can use the H and L keys OK if I need to? Or have I got that wrong? I don't mind descending myself, but usually it's too late by the time I realise ATC is not going to give me any instructions..

Thanks again.