OnCourse Software

So I tried to create a flight plan in FSX that would use the Korry Three STAR for KLGA.

I used all of the Fixes published in the Plate found in AirNav as well as the FAA site.

What did Pro Flight do....

It basically cancelled out most of the fixes for Korry Three and created an ADV with the MINKS approach!!!

I should at least be able to build in the STAR in my flight plan without PFE trying to figure it out for me

You should NOT add sids/stars to your flight plan. You don't have to. Please see the pfe user guide about flying procedures

Sent from my Dumbphone

That is evident I see. But I wanted to have the STAR built in to the flight plan so that the GPS on the Default 737 could have the path programmed in. Otherwise, in order to fly a STAR you would have to fly it manually and in some cases PFE would begin to bother me about me being off the airway which is annoying. I cant see how Im going to avoid this annoyance because PFE needs at least a flightplan to work with - and so - I must create a flight plan let's say from Norfolk Virginia to NYC LaGuardia. I can either choose direct GPS or use high altitude VOR IFR - in either case a flight plan will be generated for PFE to create it's ADV file with that flight path. Then when I go to fly and manually keep to the track of the STAR - at some point I will be off the airway (annoying). Also - my descent will not be stepped like the STAR - PFE will have chosen it's own descent - or, I can adjust the descent myself but only with the waypoints that PFE has built on the ADV. So my PFE descent will not match the STAR.

So...can I really fly a STAR in PFE without ignoring ATC? That puts me right back to square one - which is what I would do with the default FSX ATC

You could select the start/end of STAR in PFE so that you will be able to fly it without ATC intervention..... you will be vectored to runway from the end of the STAR.

Or you can use the STAR waypoints in your flightplan, but delete those that are very close together or PFE will drop those. Then set the altitudes for those waypoints in PFE according to the STAR. It always works for me.

If you are flying something like the KORRY3 STAR into KLGA it has a lot of waypoints very close together. Some of these will be dropped when PFE creates an adv file, but you can use the ones that are retained to set altitudes.

and have a look at this tutorial "SID'S and STAR'S for Advances Users" :

http://www.oncourse-software.co.uk/tutorial_videos.htm

pschlute wrote:

You could select the start/end of STAR in PFE so that you will be able to fly it without ATC intervention..... you will be vectored to runway from the end of the STAR.

Or you can use the STAR waypoints in your flightplan, but delete those that are very close together or PFE will drop those. Then set the altitudes for those waypoints in PFE according to the STAR. It always works for me.

If you are flying something like the KORRY3 STAR into KLGA it has a lot of waypoints very close together. Some of these will be dropped when PFE creates an adv file, but you can use the ones that are retained to set altitudes.

Yea - I think I will have to go this route - good input. I was just hoping I didn't have to do that.

I'll take a look at the tutorial and see if I can come up with something that works for me.

Aww man - that's it? I know that stuff in the tutorial but thanks anyways!

Bottom line is that I will have to use personal time to play with flightplan and tweak it so that waypoints are not too close - which for me is a waste of time since I want a product that will not have that issue. By the way - we all know there is another product that does not have an issue with waypoints and descents but I wont go there.

It's all good.

What works well is to have a FP in PFE to which you have added the SID STAR start/end points and designations using only the relevant PFE page. If it is necessary to navigate to the start/end points then put those in your FMC/Inertial system i.e. a second FP. PFE lets you fly the SID/STAR by yourself. So, whether you fly that leg manually or by FD is your choice. People get confused with sid's and star's when using PFE. Because they are used to building in SID's and STAR's to their FP's they seem to think it's a navigation programme whereas it's an ATC programme. Real ATC will tell you to fly a SID or STAR and may or "may not" give instructions during transit.

Tip for flying a SID is to fly it manually until before the end point. Kick in the AP and "it" should make the turn onto your course. This is a double check that you have programmed the navigation correctly and good practice.

vololiberista

JOSEF wrote:

pschlute wrote:

You could select the start/end of STAR in PFE so that you will be able to fly it without ATC intervention..... you will be vectored to runway from the end of the STAR.

Or you can use the STAR waypoints in your flightplan, but delete those that are very close together or PFE will drop those. Then set the altitudes for those waypoints in PFE according to the STAR. It always works for me.

If you are flying something like the KORRY3 STAR into KLGA it has a lot of waypoints very close together. Some of these will be dropped when PFE creates an adv file, but you can use the ones that are retained to set altitudes.

Yea - I think I will have to go this route - good input. I was just hoping I didn't have to do that.

I'll take a look at the tutorial and see if I can come up with something that works for me.

Aww man - that's it? I know that stuff in the tutorial but thanks anyways!

Bottom line is that I will have to use personal time to play with flightplan and tweak it so that waypoints are not too close - which for me is a waste of time since I want a product that will not have that issue. By the way - we all know there is another product that does not have an issue with waypoints and descents but I wont go there.

It's all good.

Good point and a very nice idea!!!!!

by the way it's not that I think PFE is a flight planner because I don't.

But you must remember that PFE is an ATC and it will give commands to descend and that is where the simulation fails in my case. PFE has some STARS already built in like MINKS for KLGA, but MINKS is no longer used for that airport. And the descent points for MINKS will not match KORRY3. So I really don't get to fly the descent the way it should be controlled by ATC.

I know I can fly with PFE giving me good ATC for an ILS and Vectors flight, so I will more than likely use PFE when I want to fly like that...

I'll have to buy another ATC to do the SIDS and STARS out of the package when I want to fly like the pros. Not a problem, I run one software for one style of flight and another for another style of flight. I'll just have to own the two favorite products.

PFE does not have any STARS ...it will only use the flight plan you create.

I have created a plan using http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/autoroute_rtx.php and http://www.simroutes.com/fb2/details.aspx. By selecting the Korry3 STAR on the latter site it gives me all the waypoints of that STAR. Then save the plan as a FS9 .pln file..... the open it up in FS9 select an altitude and save. Open the .pln file in PFE and compile a flightplan. Then you can adjust the altitudes on the STAR. It wont have all the waypoints as there are many very close together.

You can then fly the routeand before you start you can decide how you want ATC to interact with you.

1. If you want to fly the STAR yourself you can select GARED as the start of STAR and you will be told by ATC to fly it. You will then be vectored from APPLE the last waypoint.

2. If you want to be given ATC instructions through the STAR then dont select a start of STAR and you will be given ATC instructions as you fly it and will be vectored from APPLE.

3. If you dont want to be vectored from APPLE, then on the SIDS/STARS page select KLGA and tick the box for STARS active (automates cleared to finals). You should then be cleared from APPLE to continue approach at your discretion. APPLE is very close to the airport and this may create issues, so make sure you have a sensible number in the SIDS/STARS page for minimum FAF altitude... say 5000 if you dont expect to land on RWY04....if you are expecting 04 then 3000.