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Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bristol

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JohnY
Post subject: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bristol
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:47 pm
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Have a look at this please. This was today's flight from Exeter with the co-pilot in control.

First of all, earlier in the flight I'm sure one of the controllers said expect runway 26. Then there were some truly crazy directional instructions for approach to Runway 27 and no instruction to reduce altitude to 2500 which is the maximum for an ILS capture at this airport.

Ignore the way I finally got it down manually. I think I even touched the ground before getting it on the runway! :oops:

John

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:39 pm
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You are right, there was "expect ... runway 26" first (and the 020 looks strange here, too):
Code: Select all
10/09/2016 13:52:16: 090 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 is with you, out of 5 thousand for 4 thousand IFR  '
10/09/2016 13:52:26: 810 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Roger Altimeter is 1012  '
10/09/2016 13:52:34: 410 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633020 expect vectors for the ILS runway 26 Approach  '
10/09/2016 13:52:44: 600 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 13:53:09: 310 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn right heading 160  '
10/09/2016 13:53:16: 550 - Transcript: 'right to 160  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 13:59:15: 470 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn left heading 060  '
10/09/2016 13:59:22: 700 - Transcript: 'left to 060  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:01:40: 860 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn right heading 080  '
10/09/2016 14:01:48: 140 - Transcript: 'right to 080  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:02:59: 820 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn left heading 030  '
10/09/2016 14:03:07: 060 - Transcript: 'left to 030  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:04:58: 030 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn right heading 050  '
10/09/2016 14:05:05: 280 - Transcript: 'right to 050  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:07:19: 700 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn left heading 320  '
10/09/2016 14:07:27: 040 - Transcript: 'left to 320  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:11:41: 230 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn right heading 340  '
10/09/2016 14:11:48: 480 - Transcript: 'right to 340  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:12:35: 150 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Turn left heading 295  '
10/09/2016 14:12:42: 450 - Transcript: 'left to 295  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
10/09/2016 14:12:50: 680 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Cleared for the ILS runway 27 Approach Contact Tower on 133.85  when established. descend on ILS  '
10/09/2016 14:13:03: 960 - Transcript: 'Out of 2 thousand 5 hundred until established on the ILS runway 27  descend on ILS   Tower on 133.85  when established.   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
Maybe it carried over from your departure airport, because the "expect" call was about 30 seconds before the runway was determined?
Code: Select all
10/09/2016 13:18:52: 250 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
10/09/2016 13:18:52: 250 - Extracting Weather Data from EGTE
10/09/2016 13:18:52: 800 - Active Runway is set to 26

10/09/2016 13:53:04: 720 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
10/09/2016 13:53:05: 270 - Active Runway is set to 27
Or maybe PF3 got confused, because it seems your runway 27 for EGGD has a runway heading of 264:
Code: Select all
Runway data for EGGD WP:2
Usage set to: 0
Rwy Num: 9
Rwy Ltr: 0
Rwy ILS: 110.15
Rwy Typ: 1
Rwy Lat: 51.38205
Rwy Lon: -2.733573
Rwy Hdg: 84
Rwy Len: 6686
FAF Lat: 51.3589
FAF Lon: -3.078993
--------------------·
Usage set to: 0
Rwy Num: 27
Rwy Ltr: 0
Rwy ILS: 110.15
Rwy Typ: 1
Rwy Lat: 51.38321
Rwy Lon: -2.704246
Rwy Hdg: 264
Rwy Len: 6686
FAF Lat: 51.40535
FAF Lon: -2.359159
--------------------·
End of data for EGGD WP:2
Which scenery do you use for EGGD? The P3D data coming with PF3 has the runways at exactly 270 (and 90).

Regarding the altitude: EGGD is at 622 feet. If you do not configure something different, PF3 uses airport altitude + 3000 feet rounded up to the next 500 or 1000, so 4000 feet is expected here.
You can configure different FAF altitudes per airport as needed.

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:01 am
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Hi Thomas

As with all my other UK scenery, I use UK2000 Bristol Xtreme over an enhanced (with addons) Horizon Photo Scenery.

You're right, the runway is at 622'. However, the default P3DV3.3.5 ATC (as with all the previous and MS FSX etc) when flying IFR always brings you down to 2,500 for approach, seemingly because that is the height at which the ILS will lock on. Anything higher and the ILS doesn't work.

Thanks for the tip about configuring the airport altitudes. Now I have to figure (pun intended) out how to do it!

You didn't address my query about the frequent heading changes. Some of which, it seemed to me, the controllers were actually searching for the airport.

It's strange that I have no difficulty anywhere else with the lining up. Just my luck that I use EGGD as my home airport. I suppose I could change to Exeter.

Thanks for the quick response Thomas. Sorry to be a nuisance.

John
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:45 am
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Posts: 986
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JohnY wrote:
You're right, the runway is at 622'. However, the default P3DV3.3.5 ATC (as with all the previous and MS FSX etc) when flying IFR always brings you down to 2,500 for approach, seemingly because that is the height at which the ILS will lock on. Anything higher and the ILS doesn't work.
See below (changing FAF alt), but an alternative way could be to increase the FAF distance. This can only be done globally in Options #2 -> Advanced Options -> FAF Distance. I have set it to 9 (from the default 7) to avoid similar situations without changing the FAF Alt for individual airports. Please do not change the default FAF Alt here unless you know what you are doing, but see below to adjust it for individual airports:
JohnY wrote:
Thanks for the tip about configuring the airport altitudes. Now I have to figure (pun intended) out how to do it!
On the SIDs/STARs page, enter EGGD in the airport field, press Enter.
Now use the up/down arrows next to the FAF alt, and finally Save.
JohnY wrote:
You didn't address my query about the frequent heading changes. Some of which, it seemed to me, the controllers were actually searching for the airport.
This sometimes happens to me if the runway changes, or if I am too close to the airport and they want to bring me back to the FAF.
JohnY wrote:
It's strange that I have no difficulty anywhere else with the lining up. Just my luck that I use EGGD as my home airport. I suppose I could change to Exeter.
With above adjustments, EGGD should work fine, except for the 26/27 confusion.

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:08 pm
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Posts: 471
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Thanks for this Thomas. I'm really grateful. I've done that, lets hope it works and I don't have to bother you again.

Incidentally, without any mucking about by me, the SID and Stars page came up showing the EGGD runways as 9 and 27 so there's a small discrepancy there.

I know the default is 7 and you've got yours at 9 but I've changed the FAF distance to 10 to give myself a bit more leeway.

I'm in EDNY Friedrichstaffen at present so you'll probably be relieved to here it'll be a little while before I get back to Bristol as I want to explore the German photo scenery a little more.

All the best.

John
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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:48 pm
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Posts: 980
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
JohnY wrote:
Incidentally, without any mucking about by me, the SID and Stars page came up showing the EGGD runways as 9 and 27 so there's a small discrepancy there.


John
Always make sure with any scenery that you update PF3 from makerwys
And of course the scenery itself should concur with the charts.

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Definitely something wrong with the approach to EGGD Bri
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:15 pm
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Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:42 pm
 
It seems I'm not the only one experiencing poor approach information. Bobsk8 has been writing too. However, I've been given a tip fromanother forum that Vlock should be switched on. Something I've never done but I think I'll try it and see if it helps.

John
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