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Navigraph Integration

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:28 pm
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XML, another one of those creations one has to ask... WHY? :lol:

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Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:52 pm
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Location: LIMZ
 
dmarch wrote:
XML, another one of those creations one has to ask... WHY? :lol:
Try converting a 6 order trendline for a polynomial curve from Excel into XML. The word "nightmare" is totally inadequate!
That's why it took months++ to calculate the correct P7 thrust curve for the RR Conway for all elevations and temperatures!

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:25 pm
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Location: LIMZ
 
vololiberista wrote:
dmarch wrote:
XML, another one of those creations one has to ask... WHY? :lol:
Try converting a 6 order trendline for a polynomial curve from Excel into XML. The word "nightmare" is totally inadequate!
That's why it took months++ to calculate the correct P7 thrust curve for the RR Conway for all elevations and temperatures!
This is how to convert a 4 order curve :lol: :lol:
in Excel (267.4242424238*D15^4-2602.7777777738*D15^3+9399.5833333178*D15^2-14868.2979797705*D15)+8711.6903030121

Break it down to
267.4242424238*D15^4
-2602.7777777738*D15^3
+9399.5833333178*D15^2
-14868.2979797705*D15
+8711.6903030121

Then convert it
XML:
D15 4 pow 267.4242424238 *
D15 3 pow 2602.7777777738 * -
D15 2 pow 9399.5833333178 * +
D15 14868.2979797705 * -
8711.6903030121 +

D15 is (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf)
So the whole calculation is
(A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 4 pow 267.4242424238 * (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 3 pow 2602.7777777738 * - (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 2 pow 9399.5833333178 * + (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 14868.2979797705 * - 8711.6903030121 +

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:56 pm
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Posts: 6197
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vololiberista wrote:
vololiberista wrote:
dmarch wrote:
XML, another one of those creations one has to ask... WHY? :lol:
Try converting a 6 order trendline for a polynomial curve from Excel into XML. The word "nightmare" is totally inadequate!
That's why it took months++ to calculate the correct P7 thrust curve for the RR Conway for all elevations and temperatures!
This is how to convert a 4 order curve :lol: :lol:
in Excel (267.4242424238*D15^4-2602.7777777738*D15^3+9399.5833333178*D15^2-14868.2979797705*D15)+8711.6903030121

Break it down to
267.4242424238*D15^4
-2602.7777777738*D15^3
+9399.5833333178*D15^2
-14868.2979797705*D15
+8711.6903030121

Then convert it
XML:
D15 4 pow 267.4242424238 *
D15 3 pow 2602.7777777738 * -
D15 2 pow 9399.5833333178 * +
D15 14868.2979797705 * -
8711.6903030121 +

D15 is (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf)
So the whole calculation is
(A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 4 pow 267.4242424238 * (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 3 pow 2602.7777777738 * - (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 2 pow 9399.5833333178 * + (A:TURB ENG1 JET THRUST, psf) 14868.2979797705 * - 8711.6903030121 +
Well I guess I'll just take your word for it my friend! 8-)

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:42 pm
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Location: LIMZ
 
Without the gurus at FSDeveloper I would be dead in the water :lol:

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:51 pm
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The Excel is just gibberish to me, on the other hand the RPN calculations you put in the XML gauge scripts look very nice :)

And it allows to write very compact code, here is something I wrote for the C337 fuel selectors :lol:
Code: Select all
        <!-- set VC front fuel tank selector -->
        (A:FUEL TANK SELECTOR 1,enum)
        d 0 != if{ d 1 != if{ p -1 } }
        (>L:KNOB_FUEL_SELECTOR_F,number)

        <!-- set VC rear fuel tank selector -->
        (A:FUEL TANK SELECTOR 2,enum)
        d 0 != if{ d 1 != if{ p -1 } }
        (>L:KNOB_FUEL_SELECTOR_R,number)

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:32 pm
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Posts: 980
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Location: LIMZ
 
ThomasAH wrote:
The Excel is just gibberish to me, on the other hand the RPN calculations you put in the XML gauge scripts look very nice :)

And it allows to write very compact code, here is something I wrote for the C337 fuel selectors :lol:
Code: Select all
        <!-- set VC front fuel tank selector -->
        (A:FUEL TANK SELECTOR 1,enum)
        d 0 != if{ d 1 != if{ p -1 } }
        (>L:KNOB_FUEL_SELECTOR_F,number)

        <!-- set VC rear fuel tank selector -->
        (A:FUEL TANK SELECTOR 2,enum)
        d 0 != if{ d 1 != if{ p -1 } }
        (>L:KNOB_FUEL_SELECTOR_R,number)
You should join the gurus on FSDeveloper Thomas! Tom there is also an expert at condensing superfluous coding!
The Excel coding comes from the the ScatterGraph. You get Excel to do a polynomial trendline that matches your graph and then get it to display the equation.

For P7 I had to first convert a real graph of maxima and then calibrate the P7 gauges so that they show the correct P7 at idle and at full throttle. Bear in mind that their readings are very much dependant on ambient temperature and airfield elevation. I also had to add in lapse rates as well. In the real a/c the FE would call "Abort" and close his throttles during take-off if the P7 didn't get to at least half a point of the max table. The flight crew also had the P7 target placarded in front of them. This is in the days before Fadec control so the only way to avoid overstressing the engines in hot weather was to throttle up to a lower setting than max. So I had to do that as well as the throttle setting is also placarded. Non of this FMC rubbish :lol: So now in my model they see three settings 100%, 96% and 93%. The PO calls out "Factored Power" as a reminder not to advance the throttles to max if less than 100%.
[ attachment ]
P1000078x.jpg (164.45 KiB) Viewed 4885 times

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sbsim
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:37 pm
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Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:23 pm
 
Captain vololiberista, I would recommend to add your insights into LIPZ-LOWI procedures to the sticky thread with your video. It is not only an excellent piece of information, but also a good promo for PF3. I save it for a future use.
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:50 pm
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Posts: 986
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vololiberista wrote:
Here is a little test
I tried to create this flight plan with PFPX, but it seems EKPEB isn't available with the older AIRAC (AS1302) I have. I could have added it with the waypoint and airway editor, but instead just used what PFPX suggested instead: IBROT

Here is the result:
Code: Select all
********************************************************************************
                    F O R   I N F O R M A T I O N   O N L Y
********************************************************************************
MU2 FLIGHTPLAN - IFR  MU2  MU2  LIPZ-LOWI 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL WEIGHTS IN KILOGRAMS (KG)                                    STD 07APR/1200Z
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OFP 1 - PREPARED 06APR/1825Z BY THOMAS ARENDSEN HEIN  

MU2                 MU2/MARQUISE                          ROUTE:      LIPZLOWI01

DEP: LIPZ/VCE 04R   ELEV     7 FT   CRUISE:     NORM      TTL G/C DIST:   114 NM
ARR: LOWI/INN 08    ELEV  1907 FT   INIT ALT:   FL240     TTL F/P DIST:   179 NM
                                    FUEL BIAS:  100.0%    TTL AIR DIST:   171 NM
                                                          AVG WIND CMP: TL011 KT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONFIG      DOW  PAX   CARGO   TOTAL   ULOAD LIM             ZFW     TOW     LDW
STANDARD   3470    0       0       0     633 ZFW     MAX    4103    5250    5001
                                                     PLN    3470    3848    3666
                                                     ACT  ......  ......  ......

               FUEL    CORR    ENDUR
TRIP            182  ........  00:42 
CONT 5%          20  ........  00:05
NO ALTN          59  ........  00:15
FINAL RESV      117  ........  00:30
MIN T/O         378  ........  01:32       .....................................
EXTRA             0  ........  00:00       CAPTAINS SIGNATURE  (....)
TAXI             20  ........  00:10       
RELEASE         398  ........  01:42       I ACCEPT THIS OFP AND I AM FAMILIAR
                                           WITH THE PLANNED ROUTE AND AERODROMES

FUEL TANK CAP 1170 KG / MAX EXTRA FUEL 772 KG LIM BY CAPACITY
TRIP CORR FOR 50 KG TOW INCR: +0 KG / 50 KG TOW DECR: -3 KG
2000 FT LOWER:  +0 KG / EET 00:42  CLB: NORM  DES: NORM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIPZ  STD 12:00Z/14:00L  ETD 12:00Z  ACT OFBL ....  EST T/O 12:10Z  ACT T/O ....
LOWI  STA 14:35Z/16:35L  ETA 12:57Z  ACT ONBL ....  EST LDG 12:52Z  ACT LDG ....
          02:35              00:57   TTL BLCK ....                  TTL FLT ....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATC ROUTE: N0293F240 ROKI6J ROKIB UZ468 BRENO BREN2A


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AWY      WAYPOINT   MT    ALT MSA FREQ    TAS  LEG  FUEL REM / USED   LEG   ACC
-FIR     NAME                 ISA WND/SPD  GS  REM  POSITION          ETO / ATO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         LIPZ/04R           7 UNK                        378 /    20            
         VENICE/TESSERA                        179  N4529.6 E01220.3 ...../.....

ROKI6J   PZ493     312   *CLB UNK               19       320 /    78   09  00.09
                              M01              160  N4541.7 E01203.0 ...../.....

         *TOC      279  FL240 UNK         293    2       310 /    88   01  00.10
                              M01 224/040 268  158  N4542.0 E01200.4 ...../.....

ROKI6J   ARLUK     279  FL240 UNK         292    7       304 /    94   02  00.12
                              M01 224/041 268  151  N4543.4 E01150.3 ...../.....

ROKI6J   ROKIB     332  FL240 UNK         293   14       294 /   104   02  00.14
                              M02 224/042 304  137  N4556.1 E01141.5 ...../.....

UZ468    GIKEB     346  FL240 UNK         292   15       284 /   114   03  00.17
                              M02 223/041 314  122  N4610.9 E01137.3 ...../.....

UZ468    IBROT     346  FL240 UNK         292   31       262 /   136   06  00.23
                              M02 220/040 315   91  N4641.4 E01128.3 ...../.....

UZ468    BRENO     345  FL240 UNK         292   18       250 /   148   04  00.27
-LOVV                         M02 220/040 315   73  N4658.8 E01122.6 ...../.....

BREN2A   INN       002  FL240 UNK 420.0   293   15       240 /   158   02  00.29
         INNSBRUCK            M03 220/041 324   58  N4713.8 E01124.1 ...../.....

         *TOD      059  FL240 UNK         293    0       240 /   158   00  00.29
                              M03 220/041 331   58  N4713.9 E01124.4 ...../.....

BREN2A   RTT       059   *DES UNK 303.0         25       224 /   174   04  00.33
         RATTENBERG           M01               33  N4725.9 E01156.4 ...../.....

BREN2A   LOWI/08   245   1907 UNK               33       196 /   202   09  00.42
         INNSBRUCK                                  N4715.5 E01119.9 ...../.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


			
WIND INFORMATION - OBS 06/APR 12:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CLIMB)             GIKEB               IBROT               (DESCENT)         
FL230  225/038 -31  FL280  221/048 -44  FL280  221/049 -44  FL230  221/040 -33
FL190  225/033 -22  FL260  222/045 -39  FL260  221/045 -40  FL190  219/031 -24
FL140  223/026 -12  FL240  223/042 -34  FL240  221/041 -35  FL140  217/019 -14
FL090  216/017  -1  FL220  223/038 -30  FL220  220/036 -30  FL090  213/006  -4
 4000  140/006  +9  FL200  222/035 -25  FL200  218/031 -26   4000  320/001  +5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END FLIGHTPLAN 00025  MU2   MU2   LIPZ-LOWI   07APR2016
[ attachment ]
PFPX
LIPZLOWI01.png (118.66 KiB) Viewed 4870 times
PFPX does not allow to add RTT twice, so I opened the resulting flight plan in AivlaSoft EFB and added it. The resulting file looks fine, but the display in EFB looks a bit strange:
[ attachment ]
AivlaSoft EFB
LIPZLOWI02.png (62.86 KiB) Viewed 4870 times
Here are the two flight plans. In the second I did not save the SID waypoints, but I think EFB could do this, too.
LIPZLOWI-pln.zip
(1.87 KiB) Downloaded 240 times
No time to actually fly it though, but I saved it for a later time.

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Navigraph Integration
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:55 pm
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Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm
 
vololiberista wrote:
Non of this FMC rubbish :lol:
I see we are on the same page here :)

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