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2 more minor procedural bugs
https://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2667		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike T [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  2 more minor procedural bugs
Bug 1: Prior to ATC beginning the STAR clearance to final at the transition fix I am handed off to approach while still at cruise - which is too high to be handed off to approach. I've verified this twice on two separate flights. As I am approaching my STAR transition fix Center now hands me off to Approach which delivers the STAR instructions instead of center giving it. This is more of a distraction than broken functionality because the end result is still the same, however it is strange (and incorrect) to be told to contact approach at FL350 :-) .

Bug 2: This one has always been there but I'm surprised that no one has said anything. During ATC chatter aircraft report that "Airline <x> is out of <altitude>", which is only one half of the required sentence. The correct comms should be "Airline <x> is out of <altitude> for <altitude>." Again, more of a distraction than broken functionality, but every time I hear it I finish the sentence in my head and wonder if this can be programmatically fixed or it is the way it is because it cannot be fixed.

Again, I'm flying in Prepar3d v4 and I don't remember Bug 1 in FSX. Bug 2 is legacy and has always been there through both product evolutions.

Mike T.
Author:  reecemj [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
Same here yesterday only flying at 7000. Got handed to approach 150 miles from airport. No departure hand off.
Author:  Dave March [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
reecemj wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:20 pm
Same here yesterday only flying at 7000. Got handed to approach 150 miles from airport. No departure hand off.
I'd like to see the log file for that flight please
Author:  Dan77 [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
reecemj wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:20 pm
Same here yesterday only flying at 7000. Got handed to approach 150 miles from airport. No departure hand off.
You should have been handed from Departure to Center when passing through Center altitude, which is user-configurable. Please post the logs so we can have a look.
Author:  Dave March [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
Mike T wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:34 pm
Bug 1: Prior to ATC beginning the STAR clearance to final at the transition fix I am handed off to approach while still at cruise - which is too high to be handed off to approach. I've verified this twice on two separate flights. As I am approaching my STAR transition fix Center now hands me off to Approach which delivers the STAR instructions instead of center giving it. This is more of a distraction than broken functionality because the end result is still the same, however it is strange (and incorrect) to be told to contact approach at FL350 :-) .

Bug 2: This one has always been there but I'm surprised that no one has said anything. During ATC chatter aircraft report that "Airline <x> is out of <altitude>", which is only one half of the required sentence. The correct comms should be "Airline <x> is out of <altitude> for <altitude>." Again, more of a distraction than broken functionality, but every time I hear it I finish the sentence in my head and wonder if this can be programmatically fixed or it is the way it is because it cannot be fixed.

Again, I'm flying in Prepar3d v4 and I don't remember Bug 1 in FSX. Bug 2 is legacy and has always been there through both product evolutions.

Mike T.
For Bug #1 isn't that down to you're flight planning? i'e You reach the STAR transition at cruise?

I would like to see the log file for that flight please

For Bug #2 I'll certainly take a look but again would need the log
Author:  ThomasAH [ Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
Dan77 wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm
reecemj wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:20 pm
Same here yesterday only flying at 7000. Got handed to approach 150 miles from airport. No departure hand off.
You should have been handed from Departure to Center when passing through Center altitude, which is user-configurable. Please post the logs so we can have a look.
And the default center altitude is 8000 feet, so what you experienced will always happen, unless you either use a slightly higher cruise altitude or lower the center altitude.
Author:  Mike T [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
dmarch wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm
Mike T wrote: *  Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:34 pm
Bug 1: Prior to ATC beginning the STAR clearance to final at the transition fix I am handed off to approach while still at cruise - which is too high to be handed off to approach. I've verified this twice on two separate flights. As I am approaching my STAR transition fix Center now hands me off to Approach which delivers the STAR instructions instead of center giving it. This is more of a distraction than broken functionality because the end result is still the same, however it is strange (and incorrect) to be told to contact approach at FL350 :-) .

Bug 2: This one has always been there but I'm surprised that no one has said anything. During ATC chatter aircraft report that "Airline <x> is out of <altitude>", which is only one half of the required sentence. The correct comms should be "Airline <x> is out of <altitude> for <altitude>." Again, more of a distraction than broken functionality, but every time I hear it I finish the sentence in my head and wonder if this can be programmatically fixed or it is the way it is because it cannot be fixed.

Again, I'm flying in Prepar3d v4 and I don't remember Bug 1 in FSX. Bug 2 is legacy and has always been there through both product evolutions.

Mike T.
For Bug #1 isn't that down to you're flight planning? i'e You reach the STAR transition at cruise?

I would like to see the log file for that flight please

For Bug #2 I'll certainly take a look but again would need the log
Hi Dave:

Bug #1 - Yes, I almost always start my transition to the STAR at cruise since most STARs are designed that way. For instance I'm flying from KSEA to KLAX using the REBRG.IRNMN1 transition. REBRG is crossed at my assigned FL (FL370 in this case) and there are various lower crossing altitudes along the star. The problem with PF3 would be being told to contact approach since I'm still over 100+ NM from the airport. I'd be too far and too high to contact approach, so, it would be center that would tell me to "continue via the IRNMN1 approach" and not approach. Approach should not be contacted until you are within 30 to 50 nm of the airport and generally below 15,000 ft - even though there are some approach sectors that go up to 20,000 in crowded airspace. Either way, definitely not at FL370 at 150 nm from the airport :-)

Bug #2 - I'll have the logs for ya as soon as I land.
Author:  Dan77 [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 more minor procedural bugs
Mike T wrote: *  Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:09 am
Bug #1 - Yes, I almost always start my transition to the STAR at cruise since most STARs are designed that way. For instance I'm flying from KSEA to KLAX using the REBRG.IRNMN1 transition. REBRG is crossed at my assigned FL (FL370 in this case) and there are various lower crossing altitudes along the star.
We don't have logs or your flight plan but in general your last PF3 waypoint should be about 25-40 nm out. I assume REBRG (more than 130 nm out) is not the last waypoint in your PF3 flight plan. If the STAR is long, the early STAR waypoints should be included in your PF3 flight plan, and in this case I would probably have IRNMN (about 31 nm out) as my last PF3 waypoint. You can designate REBRG as the beginning of your STAR on the waypoint page and enter the crossing altitudes from the chart.
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