OnCourse Software

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

1) L and H keys alone:

"XYZ request lower"
"XYZ request higher"

Then ATC calculates the lowest altitude based on AI traffic and flight plan (TOD or TOC not to be considered). This is handy before or if you are too close to destination. It's very important that ATC determines the altitude not the pilots.

2)C+L or C+R
one time "xxx Center, XYZ request left deviation due weather" (or right dev.)
ATC: "XYZ Left deviation approved when able fly direct ABCD" (next appropriate waypoint)
C+S+0 "XYZ"

3) Center tells you the STAR and Approach in use so you can prepare and brief the procedure before TOD.
"XYZ expect the ABC Arrival, ILS 25R in KBOS"
C+S+0 "XYZ" (optional)

4) ATC volume: Don't lower it, only the other pilot's. Usually ATC has a BIG antenna. Other traffic volume is good to be random, but maintaining consistently that volume at least for a while.

5) "Resume own navigation" instead I suggest "Fly direct to ABCD (next logical waypoint) then as filed, climb or maintain or descend FL XXX"

6) Instead of "Out of FL XXX climb to FL YYY JetBlue 123" just "Climb to FL XXX JetBlue 123"
Just like you have already in your ATC recordings.

7) Emergencies are essential for me, this is the reason I bought PF3, you can't do that in Vatsim. After an Emergency is announced: ATC will provide vectors and altitude clearances only if the pilot request them. PF3 is using a hybrid solution I noticed, it gives vectors and altitudes adding "at pilot discretion", but if you don't want them and you are on the emergency drill this is annoying just to hear all that and trying to ignore it. ATC main job is to deviate traffic for you and if you request assistance, then and only then vector you, provide info etc.
The keys for this I am not sure. But I suggest something like this:
C+S+E "Mayday, Mayday, XYZ declaring an Emergency, standby!"
ATC "XYZ, roger"
now PF3, while waiting for instructions from the distressed airplane deviates all traffic. ABC turn right my maintain xxx.... CDE hold etc,.." (it would be great if PF3 was able to vector and separate AI! maybe in a future release? this is really very important and expected from any program like this one)
Next command could be a number 1 to 6, to request:
1 Departure Airport no vectors
2 Departure Airport vectors for Approach available
3 Destination Airport no vectors
4 Destination Airport vectors for Approach available
5 Enroute Airport no vectors
6 Enroute Airport vectors for Approach available
Next command:
ATC "XYZ, do you require to evacuate on the runway?"
C+S+Y or C+S+N
All AI should be flying or hold on the ground until you are cleared of the runway

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

1) L and H keys alone:

"XYZ request lower"
"XYZ request higher"

Then ATC calculates the lowest altitude based on AI traffic and flight plan (TOD or TOC not to be considered). This is handy before or if you are too close to destination. It's very important that ATC determines the altitude not the pilots.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

2)C+L or C+R
one time "xxx Center, XYZ request left deviation due weather" (or right dev.)
ATC: "XYZ Left deviation approved when able fly direct ABCD" (next appropriate waypoint)
C+S+0 "XYZ"

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

3) Center tells you the STAR and Approach in use so you can prepare and brief the procedure before TOD.
"XYZ expect the ABC Arrival, ILS 25R in KBOS"
C+S+0 "XYZ" (optional)

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

7) Emergencies are essential for me, this is the reason I bought PF3, you can't do that in Vatsim. After an Emergency is announced: ATC will provide vectors and altitude clearances only if the pilot request them. PF3 is using a hybrid solution I noticed, it gives vectors and altitudes adding "at pilot discretion", but if you don't want them and you are on the emergency drill this is annoying just to hear all that and trying to ignore it. ATC main job is to deviate traffic for you and if you request assistance, then and only then vector you, provide info etc.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

The keys for this I am not sure. But I suggest something like this:
C+S+E "Mayday, Mayday, XYZ declaring an Emergency, standby!"
ATC "XYZ, roger"
now PF3, while waiting for instructions from the distressed airplane deviates all traffic. ABC turn right my maintain xxx.... CDE hold etc,.." (it would be great if PF3 was able to vector and separate AI! maybe in a future release? this is really very important and expected from any program like this one)
Next command could be a number 1 to 6, to request:
1 Departure Airport no vectors
2 Departure Airport vectors for Approach available
3 Destination Airport no vectors
4 Destination Airport vectors for Approach available
5 Enroute Airport no vectors
6 Enroute Airport vectors for Approach available
Next command:
ATC "XYZ, do you require to evacuate on the runway?"
C+S+Y or C+S+N
All AI should be flying or hold on the ground until you are cleared of the runway

RALF9636 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 6:04 pm

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

1) L and H keys alone:

"XYZ request lower"
"XYZ request higher"

Then ATC calculates the lowest altitude based on AI traffic and flight plan (TOD or TOC not to be considered). This is handy before or if you are too close to destination. It's very important that ATC determines the altitude not the pilots.

I don't really understand what you mean. ATC already descends you according to your flightplan.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

2)C+L or C+R
one time "xxx Center, XYZ request left deviation due weather" (or right dev.)
ATC: "XYZ Left deviation approved when able fly direct ABCD" (next appropriate waypoint)
C+S+0 "XYZ"

Would be nice indeed. But I'm afraid it would require additional wav-files so it probably won't happen in the near future.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

3) Center tells you the STAR and Approach in use so you can prepare and brief the procedure before TOD.
"XYZ expect the ABC Arrival, ILS 25R in KBOS"
C+S+0 "XYZ" (optional)

There is already a wishlist entry on the Beta Forum to get the expected runway at the start of the STAR.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

7) Emergencies are essential for me, this is the reason I bought PF3, you can't do that in Vatsim. After an Emergency is announced: ATC will provide vectors and altitude clearances only if the pilot request them. PF3 is using a hybrid solution I noticed, it gives vectors and altitudes adding "at pilot discretion", but if you don't want them and you are on the emergency drill this is annoying just to hear all that and trying to ignore it. ATC main job is to deviate traffic for you and if you request assistance, then and only then vector you, provide info etc.

You can already easily achieve this by requesting a clearance to final at pilot's discretion (hotkey 1).

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

The keys for this I am not sure. But I suggest something like this:
C+S+E "Mayday, Mayday, XYZ declaring an Emergency, standby!"
ATC "XYZ, roger"
now PF3, while waiting for instructions from the distressed airplane deviates all traffic. ABC turn right my maintain xxx.... CDE hold etc,.." (it would be great if PF3 was able to vector and separate AI! maybe in a future release? this is really very important and expected from any program like this one)
Next command could be a number 1 to 6, to request:
1 Departure Airport no vectors
2 Departure Airport vectors for Approach available
3 Destination Airport no vectors
4 Destination Airport vectors for Approach available
5 Enroute Airport no vectors
6 Enroute Airport vectors for Approach available
Next command:
ATC "XYZ, do you require to evacuate on the runway?"
C+S+Y or C+S+N
All AI should be flying or hold on the ground until you are cleared of the runway

You can already achieve your Options 1 to 6:

1: Answer "Yes" to the according question and then press hotkey 1.
2: Answer "Yes" to the according question.
3 and 4: Not really supported but you could declare emergency not before you are very close to the Destination Airport and then proceed like 5 and 6.
5: Answer "No" to the according question and then press hotkey 1.
6: Answer "No" to the according question.

Your other suggestions regarding the emergency handling sound interesting. PF3 is not controlling AI traffic though.


Thanks for your input!

vololiberista wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 5:51 pm

massimo390 wrote: *

Sat May 13, 2017 4:41 pm

1) L and H keys alone:

"XYZ request lower"
"XYZ request higher"

Then ATC calculates the lowest altitude based on AI traffic and flight plan (TOD or TOC not to be considered). This is handy before or if you are too close to destination. It's very important that ATC determines the altitude not the pilots.

2)C+L or C+R
one time "xxx Center, XYZ request left deviation due weather" (or right dev.)
ATC: "XYZ Left deviation approved when able fly direct ABCD" (next appropriate waypoint)
C+S+0 "XYZ"

3) Center tells you the STAR and Approach in use so you can prepare and brief the procedure before TOD.
"XYZ expect the ABC Arrival, ILS 25R in KBOS"
C+S+0 "XYZ" (optional)

4) ATC volume: Don't lower it, only the other pilot's. Usually ATC has a BIG antenna. Other traffic volume is good to be random, but maintaining consistently that volume at least for a while.

5) "Resume own navigation" instead I suggest "Fly direct to ABCD (next logical waypoint) then as filed, climb or maintain or descend FL XXX"

6) Instead of "Out of FL XXX climb to FL YYY JetBlue 123" just "Climb to FL XXX JetBlue 123"
Just like you have already in your ATC recordings.

7) Emergencies are essential for me, this is the reason I bought PF3, you can't do that in Vatsim. After an Emergency is announced: ATC will provide vectors and altitude clearances only if the pilot request them. PF3 is using a hybrid solution I noticed, it gives vectors and altitudes adding "at pilot discretion", but if you don't want them and you are on the emergency drill this is annoying just to hear all that and trying to ignore it. ATC main job is to deviate traffic for you and if you request assistance, then and only then vector you, provide info etc.
The keys for this I am not sure. But I suggest something like this:
C+S+E "Mayday, Mayday, XYZ declaring an Emergency, standby!"
ATC "XYZ, roger"
now PF3, while waiting for instructions from the distressed airplane deviates all traffic. ABC turn right my maintain xxx.... CDE hold etc,.." (it would be great if PF3 was able to vector and separate AI! maybe in a future release? this is really very important and expected from any program like this one)
Next command could be a number 1 to 6, to request:
1 Departure Airport no vectors
2 Departure Airport vectors for Approach available
3 Destination Airport no vectors
4 Destination Airport vectors for Approach available
5 Enroute Airport no vectors
6 Enroute Airport vectors for Approach available
Next command:
ATC "XYZ, do you require to evacuate on the runway?"
C+S+Y or C+S+N
All AI should be flying or hold on the ground until you are cleared of the runway

1. It also very important for pilots to request altitude changes for example weight limitations. If you are a bit close to your calculated TOD then that means a more rapid descent. Normal procedure.

2. "deviation" doesn't exist in the voice scripts.

3. The current procedure is correct.

4. You can turn that option off if you want all transmissions to be full volume.

5. "resume own navigation" is correct RT.

6. So is "out of xxx for yyy"

7. You can already change the hotkey to declare a Mayday. I don't think PF3 can alter the courses of any AI. It might be able in conjunction with AI Controller. What would be a better request is to be able to abort a take-off.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sun May 14, 2017 5:31 am

Just to clarify:

From the Pilot Controller Glossary:
RESUME OWN NAVIGATION− Used by ATC to advise a pilot to resume his/her own navigational responsibility. It is issued after completion of a radar vector or when radar contact is lost while the aircraft is being radar vectored

PF3 is using Approach controllers to tell you that you take full responsibility of your navigation in radar control areas under IFR. That is INCORRECT. They can't do that unless they radar fails or you are under VFR rules.

massimo390 wrote: *

Sun May 14, 2017 5:31 am

Just to clarify:

From the Pilot Controller Glossary:
RESUME OWN NAVIGATION− Used by ATC to advise a pilot to resume his/her own navigational responsibility. It is issued after completion of a radar vector or when radar contact is lost while the aircraft is being radar vectored

PF3 is using Approach controllers to tell you that you take full responsibility of your navigation in radar control areas under IFR. That is INCORRECT. They can't do that unless they radar fails or you are under VFR rules.

Dan77 wrote: *

Sun May 14, 2017 10:19 am

Sorry I haven't read everything in the thread but if you are consistently being descended too late you may want to post a log. Sometimes tweaking the flight plan can make a difference.