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A couple of issues with latest flights

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A320Flyer
Post subject: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:21 pm
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Hi Dave,

On my last few flights, I have been given instruction to reduce speed to 260kts whilst still above FL130, sometimes as much as FL180. Both the attached sets of logs it happened. I'm not certain of IRW, but this doesn't seem very realistic?

On today's flight, I was given a SID for RW28, but told to taxi to RW10!! Also on approach, I was directed towards the Localiser, but was not cleared for it. After passing through it, cleared to land was given about 10 miles later. By this time, I had to divert due to an approaching mountain, so ignore anything that happened after that (I had to land on the opposite runway ;-(.

Cheers
Bill
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Logs220124.rar
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A320Flyer
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:08 pm
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Hi Dave,

On tonight's flight, instructed to reduce speed whilst at FL200. Then cleared for the localiser whilst still at FL150. I had to pass through the localiser, circle around whilst I lost altitude, and approach from the other side.

Bill
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Dave March
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:48 pm
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A320Flyer wrote: *  Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:21 pm
Hi Dave,

On my last few flights, I have been given instruction to reduce speed to 260kts whilst still above FL130, sometimes as much as FL180. Both the attached sets of logs it happened. I'm not certain of IRW, but this doesn't seem very realistic?

On today's flight, I was given a SID for RW28, but told to taxi to RW10!! Also on approach, I was directed towards the Localiser, but was not cleared for it. After passing through it, cleared to land was given about 10 miles later. By this time, I had to divert due to an approaching mountain, so ignore anything that happened after that (I had to land on the opposite runway ;-(.

Cheers
Bill

Logs210124.rarLogs220124.rar
The descend instructions are as they've always been... there is some randomization built in but getting 'reduce speed to 260' at FL130 has always been the same.

When you say you were given a SID for RW28, PF3 doesn't assign SIDs

It gets a bit confusing to have two logs in the same post as I don't know which one you're referring to with the above issues. However, you mention not being given 'clearance to the ILS' but both logs show you did in fact receive that instruction before the FAF

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2024-01-23_133034.jpg (243.19 KiB) Viewed 1996 times

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Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:59 pm
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A320Flyer wrote: *  Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:08 pm
Hi Dave,

On tonight's flight, instructed to reduce speed whilst at FL200. Then cleared for the localiser whilst still at FL150. I had to pass through the localiser, circle around whilst I lost altitude, and approach from the other side.

Bill

Logs.rar
What on earth did you use to create your flight plan... here's the profile

1 - Alt at NELSA is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 159 nm
2 - Alt at XXX is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 149 nm
3 - Alt at CROFT is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 140 nm
4 - Alt at KOLID is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 132 nm
5 - Alt at TADAL is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 122 nm
6 - Alt at GUNTU is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 117 nm
7 - Alt at PENIL is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 99 nm
8 - Alt at DANDI is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 88 nm
9 - Alt at LELDO is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 83 nm
10 - Alt at LANVA is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 70 nm
11 - Alt at SITKU is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 56 nm
12 - Alt at RIMVU is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 45 nm
13 - Alt at BAGSO is 22000 (Dist to Dest: 31 nm
14 - Alt at EIDW is 243

You had the Filtered Flight Plan option ON so PF3 wouldn't change any of the altitudes. So I'm afraid this ones down to a bad flight plan.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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A320Flyer
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:34 pm
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Hi Dave

“When you say you were given a SID for RW28, PF3 doesn't assign SIDs”

What I meant was Pf3 cleared me to the SID for rw28 but then instructed me to taxi to rw10. I’ll check my Sid’s and stars assignments.

“ What on earth did you use to create your flight plan... ”

I used SimBrief as usual. I don’t normally alter any of the altitudes and Pf3 handles the step descents fine.

Bill


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:55 pm
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Quote:
I used SimBrief as usual. I don’t normally alter any of the altitudes and Pf3 handles the step descents fine.
PF3 will continue to do so but you would have to turn the 'Use Filtered Flight Plan' OFF

Please see the following from the beta readme
Quote:
Some changes to the following which was released in Beta 3.21.88

OLD
-----
ADDED a new option to the Advanced Options page called 'Flight Plan Filter'. Basically this option provides a means by which you can use a flight plan, containing a SID and/or a STAR, which you would normally load into your flight plan and PF3 will remove the SID (except the SID exit waypoint) and the STAR (except the enstry waypoint). Currently it's quite difficult to load most SIDs/STARs into PF3 as most of the waypoints are very close together, so you can end up have two flight plans... one for your FMC and the other for PF3. Full details for this option are provided in the updated PF3 User Guide

NEW
-----
ADDED a new option to the Advanced Options page called 'Flight Plan Filter'. Basically this option provides a means by which you can use a flight plan, containing a SID and/or STAR, which you would normally load into your FMC and PF3 will remove the SID (except the SID exit waypoint) and the STAR (except the entry waypoint). Currently it's quite difficult to load most SIDs/STARs into PF3 as most of the waypoints are very close together, so you can end up have two flight plans... one for your FMC and the other for PF3. The SID exit point altitude will be retained from your original flight plan, as will the altitude for the STAR entry point. The descent profile will also be retained from the original flight plan but PF3 will continue to put your cruise altitude into the first waypoint following your SID exit point (if included), upto and including the original flight plan's TOD. You will not be able to alter any of the altitudes from within PF3 when loading such a flight plan as we've had many users voicing their desire for PF3 not to change their flight plan, especially the descent profile. Full details for this option are provided in the updated PF3 User Guide.

In addition to the above you can also load a flight plan containing no procedures at all when this Flight Plan Filter option is selected and in that scenario PF3 will again enter your cruise altitude in the first waypoint and all those waypoints upto and including your original flight plan's TOD. The descent profile will remain unchanged. When using such a flight plan (with no SID and STAR) you will be able to adjust your altitudes as you can now.

This feature will only work with a valid flight plan. Basically that means it should be in XML format and each waypoint should have a valid altitude, so default FS9 or FSX flight plans would not be valid. The former as it's not XML and the later as the XML file does not include waypoint altitudes.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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A320Flyer
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 5:59 pm
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"PF3 will continue to do so but you would have to turn the 'Use Filtered Flight Plan' OFF"

I clearly didnt fully understand the implications of using this filter. :oops:


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 6:31 pm
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A320Flyer wrote: *  Tue Jan 23, 2024 5:59 pm
"PF3 will continue to do so but you would have to turn the 'Use Filtered Flight Plan' OFF"

I clearly didnt fully understand the implications of using this filter. :oops:
Please let me know what/how I could explain better to make it easier to understand, so I get the documentation right.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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A320Flyer
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:36 pm
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Hi Dave,

I didn't appreciated the changes from the OLD beta to the NEW beta and how these affected the altitudes after the TOD.

The first logs I originally attached I thought were from the flight I had issues with. I can see from your pictogram that the logs were from a flight I had no issues with (ie landing at Leeds/Bradford). My apologies!

The flight I did have issues with was Leeds to Dublin and the attached FP shows the effect of using the Filtered FP Option (RHS is Option ON, LHS is Option OFF). I thought this option was purely to allow a FP with a SID/STAR to be loaded by PF3 and PF3 would simply truncate the SID and STAR. I didn't appreciated that the NEW beta also affected the altitudes after the TOD.

I have to admit, I don't see the logic of maintaining the cruise altitude after TOD. Surely, we want a descent profile? Then again, I seldom use STARS, preferring vectors for approach. Basically, its the changes from OLD to NEW that confuses me. I might try a STAR with the NEW beta and see how it perform. That might help me understand a bit better. In the meantime I'll leave the filter option OFF.

Thanks for all your great work.

Bill


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A320Flyer
Post subject: Re: A couple of issues with latest flights
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:37 pm
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Oops!
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