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PF3 flight plan processing

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pointy56
Post subject: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:41 pm
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Hi,

I have been making a series of flights to familiarise myself with Oceanic procedures and have encountered a strange situation:

I created an IFR plan for a flight from Kangerlussuaq (BGSF) to Iqaluit (CYFB) via a single waypoint (WP1) at 64N 59W so that it crossed Gander Oceanic airspace.
PF3 loaded this flight plan with the usual warning that the final waypoint was too far from the destination.
I expected it to add two additional waypoints, at the entry and exit of the oceanic airspace, but when I reviewed the PF3 waypoints it had only added the one at the entry point.
The curiosity is that the JSON file created at the same time has 4 XXX waypoints, 2 each at the entry and exit, probably due to slightly overlapping airspaces.

Is this a known problem, or am I doing something wrong? Contents of FPP directory attached - I am running 3.10.22

Thanks,
Martin

PS Since this arose I am now unable to get into PF3 - when I start it the System Check runs, but the main window fails to display. How can I fix this?

Attachments
FPP-210306.zip
(3.35 KiB) Downloaded 74 times


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pointy56
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:48 pm
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And this is what's in the startup log when I run it now:

06/03/2021 16:37:08 - PF3 starting on DELL-G5
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Initialising...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Collating Skins...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check NET Framework...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check Regional Settings...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check Regional Setting Requirements...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - No Regional Changes required.
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check Taxiway Files...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check Voice Sets...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Check XPack2 Voice Sets...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Compare Voice Sets...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Checking INI file entries...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Reading Hotkey assignments...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Reading Hotkey activation...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Loading Main display...
06/03/2021 16:37:08 - Startup complete.

Thanks,
Martin


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:10 pm
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PF3 only adds XXX waypoints, it doesn't add any other type

First thing is are you using the 'Extended Control Sector' Data... switchable from the Load a Flight Plan page. The extended control data was extensively reworked and could resolve some of those overlap issues.

But, if you can't get into PF3 you can't check that. So, is PF3 starting but maybe it's the window that you can't see. i.e. is PF3 still on the taskbar? if so hold down the shift key then right click on the PF3 taskbar icon and select 'Move'. Now release the shift key and press one of the arrow keys on your keyboard. Now move your mouse and the PF3 window should appear. This happens regularly for me when I'm running FS9/FSX during testing.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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pointy56
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:59 pm
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Dave, thanks for the tip about 'finding' the main window, that sorted me out - I had tried various things, but not that sequence.

I may not have explained my problem very well - I was expecting PF3 to add an XXX 'handoff' point at the entry and exit of oceanic airspace.
This is what the JSON appears to show, Gander Oceanic is the green area:
[ attachment ]
Capture 2021-03-06b.PNG (58.4 KiB) Viewed 1691 times
However, the exit handoff point is missing from the PF3 flight plan (between WP1 and CYFB):
[ attachment ]
Capture 2021-03-06a.PNG (6.83 KiB) Viewed 1691 times
I don't see how I can set up the Oceanic procedure correctly when no exit point is generated.
(Using the Extended Control sectors I see a similar problem, but with two XXX points between BGSF and WP1, and again none between WP1 and CYFB)

Cheers,
Martin


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:57 pm
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PF3 doesn't generate any entry or exit points for Oceanic flight plans... for non standard FP's (i.e. ones that don't already contain Shanwick and Gander) it's up to you to specify where you want the entry and exit points, so in this example you would have to include extra waypoints into your FP. Also PF3 doesn't care where this Oceanic flight takes you... the entire journey 'could' be over land with no water in sight whatsoever.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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pointy56
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:57 pm
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OK, for the moment perhaps we can ignore the fact that one of the sectors happens to be labelled Oceanic.
This flight starts in Reykjavik sector 2, crosses into Gander sector 1 and finally into Montreal sector 3; the JSON file includes 2 XXX transition points, entering and leaving the Gander sector.
For some reason the FPP file, and the waypoint list in PF3, only shows the XXX transition between BGSF and WP1; the other one, between WP1 and CYFB, isn't listed:
[ attachment ]
Capture 2021-03-06c.PNG (8.47 KiB) Viewed 1677 times
I'm struggling to understand why the second XXX transition point is in one file but not the other, as this surely defines where ATC handovers need to occur.

Thanks,
Martin


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:01 pm
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Martin, all XXX waypoints after the last real waypoint are dropped by PF3 post processing... the json file is created during initial processing and before we make any final adjustments i.e. with handovers being too close, etc. Your last waypoint is where you would be handed off to Approach and therefore no other handoffs (at XXX waypoints) are required. Just one of the reasons you get a warning about the last waypoint being too far from the destination. :(

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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pointy56
Post subject: Re: PF3 flight plan processing
Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:28 pm
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Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:51 am
 
Thank you for explaining that Dave, it makes perfect sense; I will be able to plan my flights to allow for this now I know.

Cheers,
Martin


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