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If you are reporting an issue with PF3 please remember to Zip and attach the Debug_Monitor.log file from your PF3\Logs folder.



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
Hello, since the userguide barely mentions this:

I really have trouble to get that program working. What could cause the hotkey window to not appear, despite being selected in the options?
Can you integrate Navigraph data into to? Without it all the charts for MSFS are more or less useless and so would be the program as well, since the default data is missing so much.

Is it really necessary to use like 40 different hotkeys to use this program if I don't use voice and don't want to let the AI handle all atc comms?

Is it possible to change options without disconnecting the program from the sim?

The one time I kind of got it working by advancing everything with the 0 key (which is really strange since there is no feedback from the program at all what you are supposed to do) I got a taxi clearance and instructions (which were completely garbage and even worse then the default atc since it lacks Navigraph data) I could only request to taxi again via the 0 key over and over again and got stuck in a loop at the holding point.

I really want to like this program and while the features (at least from what I read) are better then the default atc the usability seems to be much worse.

I hope I am wrong in most or any of the points I made and would be happy to be corrected. :)

Edit: to clarify a bit on what I mean: This is a quote from the manual:

Hotkey Ctrl + Shift + E
Use this key to declare an emergency during your flight. ATC will then direct
you to the nearest emergency airport if you can't make it back to your
departure airport.
This procedure will also require you to use the C\S\Y and/or C\S\N hotkeys
(explained later in this section) to answer certain questions from ATC

This is one of the features I really want since the default ATC and P2A don't offer that and I play with random failures. But I also play in VR. How am I supposed to remember this while needing to use this really rarely while my engines are on fire and my plane is going down and I frantically try to restart them? Not to mention actually finding the buttons while not being able to see my keyboard. This works ok for the number buttons, but 3 buttons?
Why not use the same system the default MSFS atc uses and simply have a menu you can navigate via the number buttons?

But as I mentioned... I hope I just miss something really obvious.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 4540
Quote:
I really have trouble to get that program working. What could cause the hotkey window to not appear, despite being selected in the options?
Did you try the Hotkey to display the window? The default sequence is Ctrl+Shift+T
Quote:
Can you integrate Navigraph data into to?
No. Why would you want to do that?
Quote:
Is it really necessary to use like 40 different hotkeys to use this program if I don't use voice and don't want to let the AI handle all atc comms?
There are only 23 hotkeys in total and no, you don't have to use them all and can deactivate the ones you don't use
Quote:
Is it possible to change options without disconnecting the program from the sim?
Some but not all
Quote:
The one time I kind of got it working by advancing everything with the 0 key (which is really strange since there is no feedback from the program at all what you are supposed to do) I got a taxi clearance and instructions (which were completely garbage and even worse then the default atc since it lacks Navigraph data) I could only request to taxi again via the 0 key over and over again and got stuck in a loop at the holding point.
Can't help you with any of this I'm afraid because you didn't include the debug_monitor.log as requested at the top of this forum. Without a log file we have no way of seeing what may have gone wrong or what you may have missed. Without a log it didn't happen!

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
Thanks now I can see the Hotkey window, that helps. I guess I need to look into setting up hotkeys, since the default ones conflict a lot with the sim. But that should be doable. Not sure how well those 3 open windows will work in VR. I use OVR Toolkit so that might work if it can remeber the windows.

Navigraph is important for 2 reasons: Correct procedures in combination with the charts. If it is using the default sim data there are lots of missions approaches and departures as well as a ,lot of missing waypoints. Another issue is the frequencies which also get updated by Navigraph and are on the charts, but I could live with that if the rest is good.

That issue I had was probably because I could not see what hotkeys were possible, didn't think of a bug.

But I will give it another chance tomorrow. As I said I want to like it. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:15 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 622
Quote:
Navigraph is important for 2 reasons: Correct procedures in combination with the charts. If it is using the default sim data there are lots of missions approaches and departures as well as a ,lot of missing waypoints. Another issue is the frequencies which also get updated by Navigraph and are on the charts, but I could live with that if the rest is good.
PF3 does not use Navigraph or AIRAC data. You can fly whatever procedures you want, as long as you and your aircraft have the capability. If you have an FMC that is updated with AIRAC data you can fly current GPS/RNAV departures and approaches, or you can choose any other kind of procedure including visual, DME arc, VOR, etc. It is a bit different than other ATC programs because you actually need to consult the charts and come up with a plan rather than just being assigned a procedure and clicking a button, but quite a few real-world pilots (including Bob) in fact prefer it this way. Section 20.5 in the User Guide provides a bit more info on the (optional) use of procedures in PF3.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
Hm I see why you do that but on the other hand that leads to a tendency to always go for the easiest version. I like not knowing how the flight will play out (hence flying with failures enabled) and having to do what ATC requests from me. The MSFS ATC does this part pretty well tbh since it has the advantages of both systems: It assigns you an approach (and I mean I still have to consult the charts, no change there) but I can request a different one if I want.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
And now the program window doesnt show up anymore after starting it. It shows up in the taskbar and the demo disclaimer appears but the Program itself is hidden. Switching monitors, restarting, ALT+spacebar, disabling all but one monitor, windows+ arrow keys, nothing seems to work. Any ideas how to fix this besides reinstalling everything?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:33 am 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 4540
Sounds like it got moved off screen somehow.

If it's showing in the taskbar just hold the shift key down and right click on the PF3 taskbar icon and select 'Move'. Now release the shift key and hit one of your keyboard arrow keys. Move your mouse now and PF3 should appear.

Happens to me all the time.... not with PF3 but with FS if I minimise it

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Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
Thx, already tried that. Mouse pointer gets moved to the top left of the screen. But there is no way to reach the window. That is out of the screenspace was my guess too, since I know this happening for other programs as well. But never had the situation that nothing helps to get it back.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:57 am 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 4540
Okay, stop PF3 either from the taskbar or task manager. Now open the PF3.INI file and in the [Config] section you'll find the following entries

LeftPos=15465
TopPos=4575

Obviously the values will differ.

Change each one to a 0 (zero) then restart PF3 and save the file

LeftPos=0
TopPos=0

_________________
Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:41 am
Posts: 8
Thanks, I actually wondered if you could change some value in one of the config files. That worked. :)


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