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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:41 pm 
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Posts: 46
Hi Dave,

Please find attached logs a my last flight where a number of recurring issues came up again. I think I know what is going on but just not sure if its something I am doing wrong and in any case this may be more of request for enhancements rather than a bug report.

With PF3 in MSFS I have found that it does not seem to completely trap key combinations. For example months ago I found if I responded to PF3 with key combination cntrl+shift+y it would register in PF3 as it should (Affirm), but also triggered the Y key command in MSFS and put MSFS in Slew mode. Removing the keyboard Y command in MSFS resolved this issue.

I now believe I am running into a similar problem within PF3 when I find myself higher than I want to be during descent phase a flight and I request lower by entering something like “l+9” Now I get the descent clearance to requested altitude but it is it also triggering the HotKey 9 request as well so “Report Position” is triggered. Because of this requesting a lower/higher altitude is fraught with danger. Requesting lower can result in you also requesting higher because of clouds or even worse it can trigger “request cleared to final” or “Divert to Alternate airport” effectively ruining the flight.

During my last flight, PF3 stopped communicating with me after I was instructed to continue with STAR. This may have been a HotKey was triggered when I was trying to get lower quickly. It may also have been because I had to change arrival runway although PF3 did not issue me with what runway to expect and I guess it would be nice to begiven arrival runway when passed onto approach.

Now to the changes which to a large extent resolve these issues. Despite the problems I am having I much prefer the HotKey window way communicating with PF3 in MSFS rather than the Context sensitive commands I would just like the HotKeys available in the windows to be a bit more context sensitive.

For example during taxi from stand to departure runway having HotKey to request another runway rather than having to press a HotKey to turn off TGS and then Cntrl+Shift+W to request different runway.

During cruise there are 4 HotKeys concerning altitude. Request Higher/Lower because of clouds and Request Higher/Lower because of turbulence. Why not just have 2 HotKeys Request Lower & Request Higher. I have found using the currently available HotKeys related to altitude frequently result in an Unable response from PF3 whereas using l+n is pretty much always granted.

Another suggestion I would like to make would be for a neater way of telling PF3 you want vectors to final. Currently you have to go into the Airport page and enter a STAR possibly for several runways and then make sure the use STAR check box on the SID/STAR page is unchecked. Why not have another checkbox to tell PF3 you want vectors to final. Or even better would be to be able use the request vectors hotkey when tuned to approach as a way of telling PF3 to vector you to finals

I look forward to hearing your views on this or if the log files show up anything

Thanks in advance


Attachments:
PF3Logs.7z [1.34 MiB]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:08 am 
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Quote:
With PF3 in MSFS I have found that it does not seem to completely trap key combinations.
It really doesn't make any difference which sim you're connected to as hotkeys are handled by FSUIPC
Quote:
For example months ago I found if I responded to PF3 with key combination cntrl+shift+y it would register in PF3 as it should (Affirm), but also triggered the Y key command in MSFS and put MSFS in Slew mode. Removing the keyboard Y command in MSFS resolved this issue.
Realy not trying to pass the buck here but I think you'll find you can get the same problems within FS20, in the controller section, and is doesn't always pick up all the keys in a combination but reacts only to the last key used. Having said that, you've found the correct solution and exactly what I would have suggested.
Quote:
I now believe I am running into a similar problem within PF3 when I find myself higher than I want to be during descent phase a flight and I request lower by entering something like “l+9” Now I get the descent clearance to requested altitude but it is it also triggering the HotKey 9 request as well so “Report Position” is triggered. Because of this requesting a lower/higher altitude is fraught with danger. Requesting lower can result in you also requesting higher because of clouds or even worse it can trigger “request cleared to final” or “Divert to Alternate airport” effectively ruining the flight.
Sounds more like a keying issue here. When using the higher/lower altitude request you must press and hold the first key whilst pressing and release the second key. There should be any significant pause between hitting the two keys either, otherwise FSUIPC will just take the first key you hit, action it and then grab the second key and action that separately.
Quote:
During my last flight, PF3 stopped communicating with me after I was instructed to continue with STAR. This may have been a HotKey was triggered when I was trying to get lower quickly. It may also have been because I had to change arrival runway although PF3 did not issue me with what runway to expect and I guess it would be nice to begiven arrival runway when passed onto approach.
Unfortunately you log file appears to be corrupted. I will have to dig deeper with this and see if I can resolve that first and then come back to your issue. If you don't hear anything from me by the end of the week please give me a nudge just in case I forget :oops:

All you oher suggestions really need to go as a separate post in the above 'Feature Request' pinned post

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:29 pm
Posts: 46
Thanks for the response Dave and while I believe PF3 provides the most comprehensive and detailed ATC functionality sadly I am coming to the conclusion it is just not usable in MSFS because of its intrusive nature.

Please find attached log of flight I had to abandon. Unless I am doing something very stupid and that is more than likely and I really hope I am it looks to me like PF3 is mutually exclusive to all other Add-ons and even other aircraft enhancements such as the EFB in the FBW Mod A320neo.

With the recent integration of Navigraph and MSFS I upgraded Navigraph subscription to include Navigraph charts but when I enter anything in Navigraph its triggering PF3 commands. When I enter­ed LIML in Navigraph charts it triggered 2 x PF3 “L” requests which translated to request current altitude 180. All subsequent L+9 requests I made were all interpreted by PF3 as request current altitude. Anything entered in FBW Mod A320neo EFB also triggered PF3 commands.

Someone previously requested a PF3 pause feature that would be a work around for this issue where PF3 would just ignore any recognised inputs while in a paused state. This issue is was also evident in Prepar3D when using numeric keys (0 - 9) but it never caused me to cancel flight. In MSFS letters (a-z) are also being grabbed by PF3

I would not be surprised if FSUIPC7 is behind some of these issues but you cannot expect the Dowsons to spend a lot of time and energy on what is the free version of their product. They will obviously concentrate on the payware functionality of FSUIPC7.

I hope there is something I am missing but I cannot use PF3 if I cannot use any other product at the same time.

Hopefully you will point out what I am doing wrong as I would be surprised if no-one else is reporting these issues.

Thanks in advance


Attachments:
pf3Logs1.7z [1.39 MiB]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:03 pm 
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PF3 works just fine and seamlessly with MSFS. However, you can't have shared hotkeys between MSFS and PF3 or any other addon... that's why we give you the option to change the keys to your liking in the same way MSFS does.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:29 pm
Posts: 46
I am going to try and change HotKeys L + H to Cntr+L & Cntr+H and see if that works.

Do you see anything in the log as to why all my attempts to get higher by pressing h+9 did not work

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:27 pm 
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Quote:
I am going to try and change HotKeys L + H to Cntr+L & Cntr+H and see if that works.

Do you see anything in the log as to why all my attempts to get higher by pressing h+9 did not work

Thanks
I haven't got to the bottom of why your logs are corrupt and unreadable yet

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:29 pm
Posts: 46
Well I changed the hot keys for H to shift+\ and L to ctrl+\ and during the flight I tried several times to request lower & and higher altitudes and PF3 did not respond once. So I am at a loss on what to try now.

I would be interested if anyone else following this thread is having these types of problems when requesting lower or higher because if its just me then its simply is my problem to solve.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:12 pm
Posts: 4
I'm using PF3 with X-Plane using the PFEtoXPlane plugin. I have the same issue. Neither the default key assignment 'L' / 'H' is working nor a user defined one (e.g. Ctrl+Shift+L). The number keys are ignored with the result that the request to the ATC is always to climb or descent to the present altitude.
I think the best solution would be a stand-alone window that allows to select the requested altitude from outside the simulator.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:29 pm
Posts: 46
Thanks for confirming its not just me and you are absolutely correct in what you say about communicating with PF3. It should be through context sensitive menus rather than context sensitive commands and these context sensitive menus should be clickable. But its not going to happen.

The hope I have using MSFS rather than Xplane is Microsoft and Asobo have made it clear that they accept they must provide a true to life, functionality rich internal ATC solution and have committed to do so, but it ain't going to a quick solution.

In the meantime I have 4 add-on ATC products Radar Contact 4, PF3, Pilot2ATC, PROATC/X and in IMHO, PF3 is still way ahead of the others in core ATC functionality despite the frustration that it can cause from time to time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 4545
@musky - Today we released PF3 version 3.11.0 and amongst other things this should ensure your installation produces an uncorrupt file. So I'd appreciate it if you could recreate your hotkey issue and then include the latest debug log for me.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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