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IFR but no Instrument Landings

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JohnY
Post subject: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:11 pm
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IFR KICT Wichita to KOMA Eppley

I've complained about this before.

I'm IFR and getting near the destination. I'm once again given an approach to a runway with no instrument landing availability, so I ask for instrument landing and the answer is; 'We'll check' but they don't come back, so I have to choose an instrument runway myself which by that time, causes a major diversion.

Sorry. But if they say; 'We'll check,' anyone would expect them to come back within a reasonable time with an answer and an alternative ILS runway.

It's not that I mind making a manual landing but if I wanted tio do that I would fly VFR.

John

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:23 pm
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The previous report (pre-3.4.0) was here: viewtopic.php?p=15227#p15227

So it seems that this still is a problem in 3.4.0 that needs attention.

Dave?

Relevant log lines from this flight:
Code: Select all
07/05/2017 14:57:29: 550 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 at Papa Whiskey Echo Descend to 3 thousand 5 hundred
   Cleared to final for Sierra Tango Approach runway 14 Left at pilot's discretion Contact Tower on 132.1 when established.  '
07/05/2017 14:57:46: 890 - Transcript: 'Out of 5 thousand for 3 thousand 5 hundred at Papa Whiskey Echo until established on final for runway 14 Left
   Contact Tower on 132.1 when established.   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
07/05/2017 14:58:45: 740 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request an instrument approach  '
07/05/2017 14:58:52: 860 - Transcript: 'Stand by. We'll check  '
07/05/2017 14:58:56: 900 - Selecting runway (VFR/IFR=1)
07/05/2017 14:58:56: 900 - Active Runway is set to 18
07/05/2017 14:59:04: 860 - About to tell you where to go...
07/05/2017 14:59:04: 860 - Aircraft name not called because user selected 'None' from the PF aircraft list
"About to tell", but no further instructions ...

Edit: I just filed a report for this in the beta forum to track this issue.

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:31 pm
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Quote:
Edit: I just filed a report for this in the beta forum to track this issue.
Thanks Thomas

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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RALF9636
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:35 pm
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Until this problem is fixed and you only want to land on runways with an ILS frequency there are two options to avoid this situation:

1. Instead of requesting an instrument approach (hotkey 2), use the "request a different runway" hotkey ctrl-shift-w and manually choose the runway you want.

2. On the SIDs / STARs page enter your arrival airport ICAO, then you can deactivate all runways for landing (by setting them to "T" or "X") that do not have an ILS frequency. So these runways won't be assigned to you for landing any more.

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reecemj
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:26 pm
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JohnY wrote: *  Sun May 07, 2017 4:11 pm
IFR KICT Wichita to KOMA Eppley

I've complained about this before.

I'm IFR and getting near the destination. I'm once again given an approach to a runway with no instrument landing availability, so I ask for instrument landing and the answer is; 'We'll check' but they don't come back, so I have to choose an instrument runway myself which by that time, causes a major diversion.

Sorry. But if they say; 'We'll check,' anyone would expect them to come back within a reasonable time with an answer and an alternative ILS runway.

It's not that I mind making a manual landing but if I wanted tio do that I would fly VFR.

John
Thanks guys for checking this out. This what I have experience with pf3. Never ever get a IA from atc.
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JohnY
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:56 am
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Yes, I'll try Ctrl+Shift+W next time I have the problem.

I don't fancy messing with SID's and STAR's. I tried once and frankly couldn't fathom out what I was doing, so have left them out since. :?

Thanks for the helpful responses fellers.

John
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:17 am
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JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 08, 2017 10:56 am
I don't fancy messing with SID's and STAR's. I tried once and frankly couldn't fathom out what I was doing, so have left them out since. :?
But you had a STAR enabled! (and maybe this bug only occurs with STARs enabled, I haven't verified)

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RALF9636
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:38 am
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JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 08, 2017 10:56 am
Yes, I'll try Ctrl+Shift+W next time I have the problem.

I don't fancy messing with SID's and STAR's. I tried once and frankly couldn't fathom out what I was doing, so have left them out since. :?

Thanks for the helpful responses fellers.

John
You don't need to do anything with SIDs / STARs. It is just the name of the page on the PF3 User Interface where you can open / close the runways for takeoff amd landing. You can leave SIDs and STARs alone and just edit the runway allocation L / T / B / X.

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 3:34 pm
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Yes, well, that didn't work either. I decided on runway 26 and asked for it. The acknowledgement was for runway zero.

A further thing I don't understand is that since the update I don't think I've once been given an instrument landing. Is this coincidence or has the update upset the apple cart somehow?

If it has. Is there a way I can disable the update and go back to what we had before?

John

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: IFR but no Instrument Landings
Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:50 pm
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JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 08, 2017 3:34 pm
Yes, well, that didn't work either. I decided on runway 26 and asked for it. The acknowledgement was for runway zero.
Here is the corresponding log:
Code: Select all
08/05/2017 14:18:21: 930 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 at Hotel Lima Charlie Descend and maintain 7 thousand on 2989
    Cleared to final for Sierra Tango Approach runway 17 at pilot's discretion Contact Tower on 119.1 when established.  '
08/05/2017 14:18:38: 450 - Transcript: 'Roger Out of Flight Level 180 for 7 thousand at Hotel Lima Charlie until established on final for runway 17
    Tower on 119.1 when established.   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
08/05/2017 14:18:57: 090 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Reduce speed to 300  '
08/05/2017 14:19:04: 360 - Transcript: '300  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
08/05/2017 14:19:09: 490 - ****** HotKey #13 detected!
08/05/2017 14:19:12: 690 - FS Screen :  Use runway 17 ? - C/S/Y for Yes, or C/S/N for No
08/05/2017 14:19:18: 810 - ****** HotKey #15 detected!
08/05/2017 14:19:32: 160 - ****** HotKey #13 detected!
08/05/2017 14:19:32: 180 - FS Screen :  Closed Captioning OFF
08/05/2017 14:19:33: 240 - ****** HotKey #13 detected!
08/05/2017 14:19:36: 570 - FS Screen :  Use runway 17 ? - C/S/Y for Yes, or C/S/N for No
08/05/2017 14:19:49: 720 - ****** HotKey #17 detected!
08/05/2017 14:19:49: 720 - FS Screen :  Use runway 26L ? - C/S/Y for Yes, or C/S/N for No
08/05/2017 14:20:38: 320 - ****** HotKey #2 detected!
08/05/2017 14:20:43: 870 - ****** HotKey #2 detected!
08/05/2017 14:20:45: 140 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request an instrument approach  '
08/05/2017 14:20:52: 270 - Transcript: 'Stand by. We'll check  '
08/05/2017 14:21:12: 080 - ****** HotKey #13 detected!
08/05/2017 14:21:12: 270 - FS Screen :  Use runway 26R - ILS ? - C/S/Y for Yes, or C/S/N for No
08/05/2017 14:21:31: 820 - ****** HotKey #16 detected!
08/05/2017 14:21:31: 910 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request runway 0  '
08/05/2017 14:21:40: 110 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request an instrument approach  '
08/05/2017 14:21:47: 250 - Transcript: 'Stand by. We'll check  '
08/05/2017 14:22:02: 430 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Runway change approved continue Approach runway 0  '
08/05/2017 14:27:10: 840 - ****** HotKey #13 detected!
08/05/2017 14:27:10: 980 - FS Screen :  Use runway 26R - ILS ? - C/S/Y for Yes, or C/S/N for No
08/05/2017 14:27:35: 580 - ****** HotKey #16 detected!
08/05/2017 14:27:35: 720 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request runway 0  '
08/05/2017 14:27:44: 890 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request an instrument approach  '
08/05/2017 14:27:51: 020 - Transcript: 'Stand by. We'll check  '
08/05/2017 14:28:06: 220 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Runway change approved continue Approach runway 0  '
HotKey #2 (during Approach) is Request an instrument approach
HotKey #13 (during Approach) is Select another runway for landing
HotKey #15 is Toggle Captions
HotKey #16 is Yes
HotKey #17 is No

You pressed HotKey #13, but during that pressed HotKey #15, then twice HotKey #13 again.
Before confirming a runway with HotKey #16 you asked for an instrument approach using HotKey #2 twice.
Before the second press of HotKey #2 was processed, you requested (#13) and confirmed (#16) a runway change.
At this point PF3 was confused enough to give you runway 0 and reply to the second request for an instrument approach.

Yes, this confusion is a bug, but I don't know if the time needed to fix this should be invested by Dave here, but of course this is his decision.
But he just wrote in the beta forum that he fixed the original issue that requesting an instrument approach does not come back to you :)
JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 08, 2017 3:34 pm
A further thing I don't understand is that since the update I don't think I've once been given an instrument landing. Is this coincidence or has the update upset the apple cart somehow?

If it has. Is there a way I can disable the update and go back to what we had before?
Looks like coincidence to me. I did not check in this log (dinner time), but in the previous logs it was always the best runway for the current wind direction.
Rolling back to a previous release is possible, but complicated enough to not recommend it.

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