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250 knot restriction
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2530		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Heavy Metal [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  250 knot restriction
Hi fellas,

Flying the PMDG 744 and, as you know, it flies clean at well over 250 knots under 10,000 feet, how do I get that 250 knot restriction waved?

Cheers.
Author:  vololiberista [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Heavy Metal wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 am
Hi fellas,

Flying the PMDG 744 and, as you know, it flies clean at well over 250 knots under 10,000 feet, how do I get that 250 knot restriction waved?

Cheers.
I would have thought that the 747 would be able to fly clean at 250kts. Are you particularly heavy? The 250kts rule at 10,000ft is initially an FAA regulation though it has been adopted by many other authorities. That said the "No speed" restriction is given only on departure to facilitate climb to cruise etc. Arriving the general idea is to slow down!!! So ATC would not give a "no speed" restriction as it would destroy aircraft separation in a nanosecond!

Currently the "no speed" restriction in PF3 is a random event. I'm not sure if it is purely random or whether some criteria is applied first.

I would have to say that in your case if you are descending from 10,000ft you should be thinking of slowing down. Climbing however the 74 sould be able to maintain 250kts easily. It also depends on the SID as well if there are any SID speed restrictions.

Another point with the 747 on climb out is, especially if it is at auw, is rigid adherence to the flaps retraction speeds. The a/c at auw is going to be a bit sluggish anyway and if you retract flaps too soon even more so! From a video point of view the best example I have come across is the Just planes Air Atlanta Icelandic video Luxembourg Singapore Kuala Lumpur Baku Luxembourg. I listed all that because they did a couple. Anyway on take-off from Luxembourg the 747 is about 100kg below auw! The PO is flying exactly to the flaps schedule so much so that the Captain comments on it!
Author:  vololiberista [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
vololiberista wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:28 am
Heavy Metal wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 am
Hi fellas,

Flying the PMDG 744 and, as you know, it flies clean at well over 250 knots under 10,000 feet, how do I get that 250 knot restriction waved?

Cheers.
I would have thought that the 747 would be able to fly clean at 250kts. Are you particularly heavy? The 250kts rule at 10,000ft is initially an FAA regulation though it has been adopted by many other authorities. That said the "No speed" restriction is given only on departure to facilitate climb to cruise etc. Arriving the general idea is to slow down!!! So ATC would not give a "no speed" restriction as it would destroy aircraft separation in a nanosecond!

Currently the "no speed" restriction in PF3 is a random event. I'm not sure if it is purely random or whether some criteria is applied first.

I would have to say that in your case if you are descending from 10,000ft you should be thinking of slowing down. Climbing however the 74 sould be able to maintain 250kts easily. It also depends on the SID as well if there are any SID speed restrictions.

Another point with the 747 on climb out is, especially if it is at auw, is rigid adherence to the flaps retraction speeds. The a/c at auw is going to be a bit sluggish anyway and if you retract flaps too soon even more so! From a video point of view the best example I have come across is Oh and stating the obvious make sure that in option1the Just planes Air Atlanta Icelandic video Luxembourg Singapore Kuala Lumpur Baku Luxembourg. I listed all that because they did a couple. Anyway on take-off from Luxembourg the 747 is about 100kg below auw! The PO is flying exactly to the flaps schedule so much so that the Captain comments on it!
Oh, and stating the obvious make sure that in the options1 page of PF3 you have the "Random no speed restriction under 10k" box checked!
Author:  Heavy Metal [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Thanks for the response.

I will elaborate. I am referring to the climb out. Can the 744 do 250 knots under 10000? Yes. But it is not aerodynamicly efficient for that bird and it often gets that 250 knot restriction waived in the climb.

So, is there not a way to request this from pf3 atc or a setting to enable such? This random setting you mention would not be a solution.

Cheers.
Author:  RALF9636 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Heavy Metal wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:10 pm

So, is there not a way to request this from pf3 atc or a setting to enable such? This random setting you mention would not be a solution.
I think that is not possible at the moment.

I added an entry to the wishlist to set the percentage for the "No Speed restriction" so one would be able to even set it to 100.
Author:  vololiberista [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
RALF9636 wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:56 pm
Heavy Metal wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:10 pm

So, is there not a way to request this from pf3 atc or a setting to enable such? This random setting you mention would not be a solution.
I think that is not possible at the moment.

I added an entry to the wishlist to set the percentage for the "No Speed restriction" so one would be able to even set it to 100.
I've also chimed in on this as a quick solution that would be valid is to add "no speed" automatically if your call sign has "heavy" appended. We'll see what Dave thinks on this.

One thing to remember though is that 250kts is a maximum speed restriction not a minimum. So in the 747 case you would, especially if at auw, be quite well down in the flaps retraction schedule anyway.

Another point while I think about it. In a 747 you are going to struggle on a hot day regardless! Countless times in the Summer at Heathrow I have seen both pilots pedalling as hard and as fast as they dare just to keep airborne after take-off.
Author:  Heavy Metal [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Yes, brother, hot days or high altitudes are obviously going to adversely affect a jet's climb performance, the 747 included.

But, of course, when an option, the 744 is going to want to climb out faster than 250 knots. In my PMDG 744v3 for example I see it wants to typically climb out around ~275+ knots.
Author:  Rustydog [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
vololiberista wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:28 am

Arriving the general idea is to slow down!!! So ATC would not give a "no speed" restriction as it would destroy aircraft separation in a nanosecond!
Clearly you have never listened to Dublin approach. :shock:
They frequently give speeds of over 250kts to facilitate separation. ;)
Author:  vololiberista [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Rustydog wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:49 pm
vololiberista wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:28 am

Arriving the general idea is to slow down!!! So ATC would not give a "no speed" restriction as it would destroy aircraft separation in a nanosecond!
Clearly you have never listened to Dublin approach. :shock:
They frequently give speeds of over 250kts to facilitate separation. ;)
They like taking risks!! I've never heard it in the London TMA. And it most certainly doesn't occur here!
Author:  vololiberista [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 250 knot restriction
Heavy Metal wrote: *  Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:40 pm
Yes, brother, hot days or high altitudes are obviously going to adversely affect a jet's climb performance, the 747 included.

But, of course, when an option, the 744 is going to want to climb out faster than 250 knots. In my PMDG 744v3 for example I see it wants to typically climb out around ~275+ knots.
We're already looking at "no speed" for a "heavy" and the percentage probability of "no speed" otherwise.
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