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Big Airport/Little airport
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2328		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mllgrennman [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Big Airport/Little airport
What is the ATC procedure for departing a big highly controlled airport to a tiny uncotrolled bush strip...At some point during the flight ATC services will be discontinued...What is the proper way to simulate this?

Thanks.
Author:  ThomasAH [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
I assume:
- mostly IFR flight, only VFR landing
- destination has a Unicom or Multicom frequency (no Tower)
- VCP mode #2, I don't want to manually tune any frequency
- you know the procedure for departing from the big airport

At some point I'm close enough to the last waypoint or below center altitude, so ATC tells me to contact approach:
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 10:31:02: 810 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Contact Approach on 132.5  '
18/11/2016 10:31:10: 020 - Transcript: '132.5 J-Bird 1608 Good day  '
18/11/2016 10:31:19: 260 - Transcript: 'Approach J-Bird 1608 with you 3 thousand IFR  '
18/11/2016 10:31:26: 530 - Transcript: 'Roger J-Bird 1608 QNH 995  '
Vectoring starts when reaching the last waypoint:
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 10:33:10: 990 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 maintain Heading 325 expect vectors for the runway 27  '
18/11/2016 10:33:19: 300 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:33:39: 760 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn right heading 060  '
18/11/2016 10:33:46: 950 - Transcript: 'right to 060 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:35:25: 630 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Reduce speed to 140  '
18/11/2016 10:35:31: 760 - Transcript: '140 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:37:19: 960 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn left heading 040  '
18/11/2016 10:37:27: 160 - Transcript: 'left to 040 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:40:46: 570 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn right heading 105  '
18/11/2016 10:40:52: 730 - Transcript: 'right to 105 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:43:47: 430 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn right heading 135  '
18/11/2016 10:43:53: 660 - Transcript: 'right to 135 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:47:34: 960 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn right heading 210  '
18/11/2016 10:47:41: 140 - Transcript: 'Roger right to 210 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:47:49: 570 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Reduce speed to 110  '
18/11/2016 10:47:56: 650 - Transcript: 'Reduce speed to 110 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:53:34: 230 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Reduce speed to 90  '
18/11/2016 10:53:41: 390 - Transcript: '90 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:55:00: 040 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Turn right heading 240  '
18/11/2016 10:55:06: 180 - Transcript: 'right to 240 J-Bird 1608  '
18/11/2016 10:55:15: 460 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Cleared to final for runway 27 Radar service terminated. Squawk 1200, change to advisory frequency approved on 132.5  '
18/11/2016 10:55:29: 780 - Transcript: 'until established on final for runway 27  J-Bird 1608  '
I could manually tune to FSS, close the flight plan (hotkey 1), tune to Unicom and announce my intentions (hotkey 0) etc., but there is another way:
The Approach hotkey 8 (Report airport in sight) automatically tunes to FSS and closes the flight plan.
At this point I'm at an intercept course for final, but don't want to make a straight-in landing, so I guess I should have done this earlier. But there were clouds at 3000 feet, so vectoring was actually helpful to find the airport:
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 10:56:25: 540 - ****** HotKey #8 detected!
18/11/2016 10:56:26: 700 - Transcript: 'Approach J-Bird 1608 has the airport  '
18/11/2016 10:56:32: 840 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Good day  '
18/11/2016 10:56:42: 040 - Transcript: 'Radio J-Bird 1608 Would you close my IFR flight plan at this time?  '
18/11/2016 10:56:47: 290 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Roger. We'll close out your flight plan at 56  '
18/11/2016 10:56:55: 460 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Roger thank you.  '
FSS hotkey 7 (Request Airport Advisories) can be used to automatically tune to Unicom and ask for wind/QNH with a single keystroke:
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 10:57:15: 430 - ****** HotKey #7 detected!
18/11/2016 10:57:16: 620 - Transcript: 'Radio J-Bird 1608 Request field advisory  '
18/11/2016 10:57:22: 860 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Contact Unicom for advisory on 118.65   '
18/11/2016 10:57:31: 010 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Roger thank you.  '
18/11/2016 10:57:40: 210 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 9 Miles east at 3 thousand Request field advisory  '
18/11/2016 10:57:53: 930 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Winds 220 at 23 QNH 994  '
18/11/2016 10:58:04: 200 - Transcript: 'J-Bird 1608 Roger thank you.  '
At this point you are tuned to Unicom and can announce your intentions using hotkeys (VCP mode 2 does not assist you here):
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 10:58:21: 860 - ****** HotKey #0 detected!
18/11/2016 10:58:23: 210 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 8 Miles east at 3 thousand  '
Before entering downwind, press hotkey 2, take your time to check for traffic (PF3 will do this, too) and be ready to agree or disagree with PF3 about the chosen runway. If there is no other traffic, PF3 will always use wind (as you should, too), not your position/direction, to determine the landing runway. But since you were still looking for traffic when pressing hotkey 2, you can easily turn where your own announcement tells you to. I haven't tried if Ctrl-Shift-W works here to select another runway.
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 11:06:38: 910 - ****** HotKey #2 detected!
18/11/2016 11:06:40: 230 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 2 miles from Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar at 1 thousand entering downwind for runway 27  '
After hotkey 2 above, it is just 3/4/5 before turning base, before turning final and after leaving the runway:
Code: Select all
18/11/2016 11:08:30: 970 - ****** HotKey #3 detected!
18/11/2016 11:08:32: 100 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 turning base for landing runway 27  '
18/11/2016 11:09:25: 630 - ****** HotKey #4 detected!
18/11/2016 11:09:26: 760 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 turning final landing runway 27  '
18/11/2016 11:13:06: 190 - ****** HotKey #5 detected!
18/11/2016 11:13:07: 350 - Transcript: 'Echo Delta Whiskey Oscar (Local) Traffic J-Bird 1608 Clear of the active runway  '
You can do many variations of this, especially when tuning to FSS or Unicom by yourself.
For example, when tuned to FSS, you could switch from IFR to VFR (hotkey 6) even before the airport is in sight, and even before you have reached your last waypoint.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
thanks for the info...it will take me some time to learn it....but...what if the bush strip is not even on any charts?...it doesnt seem likely that ATC would be able to give me vectors to final...for example: PANC to my own private homestead....
Author:  ThomasAH [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
mllgrennman wrote:
thanks for the info...it will take me some time to learn it....but...what if the bush strip is not even on any charts?...it doesnt seem likely that ATC would be able to give me vectors to final...for example: PANC to my own private homestead....
Then go VFR earlier, or request Cleared To Final At Pilot's Discretion.
Author:  vololiberista [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
mllgrennman wrote:
thanks for the info...it will take me some time to learn it....but...what if the bush strip is not even on any charts?...it doesnt seem likely that ATC would be able to give me vectors to final...for example: PANC to my own private homestead....
Most strips will be registered and therefore have a designation. So you would still have to file a flightplan. Either entirely VFR or IFR then request VFR.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
vololiberista wrote:
Most strips will be registered and therefore have a designation.
Understood...but what if I'm taking off from PANC, (a big airport) going deep in to the bush and then finding whatever clearing fits my needs...At what point during the flight do I terminate ATC services?
Author:  vololiberista [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
mllgrennman wrote:
vololiberista wrote:
Most strips will be registered and therefore have a designation.
Understood...but what if I'm taking off from PANC, (a big airport) going deep in to the bush and then finding whatever clearing fits my needs...At what point during the flight do I terminate ATC services?
What you're describing sounds morel like an emergency!! ATC must always know your destination even if it's Alberts Pig Farm. You advise ATC that you are about to leave controlled airspace. Therefore requesting VFR and either they will tell you what frequency to switch to or you will do that yourself. If there is absolutely no radio coverage in the area you want to land in you must inform ATC when you are about to enter that type of uncontrolled airspace.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
vololiberista wrote:
What you're describing sounds morel like an emergency!!
yeah with me flying it usually is :lol:

so what is the RW procedure for informing ATC that i am entering an area with no radio coverage?

als pig farm is pretty deep in...

thanks
Author:  tedmax [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
This was a really helpful thread. Thanks to all for the great (and clear) information
Author:  mllgrennman [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Airport/Little airport
please consider this...i want to depart anchorage lake hood in a float plane...and land some place on the chignik river...where i see the campers...they may have moved...how would i create a flightplan in PF3 for this scenario?
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