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Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
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Author:  martinlest [ Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Hi,

I have been flying the PSS Concorde (FS9) back and forth across the Atlantic this week (Heathrow/Paris CDG to KJFK) and have had some PF3 problems with the descent: in essence I don’t get any initial descent instructions. When I come out of oceanic airspace and am contacted by ATC, the pilot confirms back to ATC that the a/c is descending to (for instance) FL400 from FL550, but no such instruction has been given to me (so in fact the a/c is not descending at all, it’s still at 55000’) – this is confirmed by the ATC text box I have open on my 2nd. Screen, which shows that it’s not a case of my having missed the request.

Presumably the problem arises because no descent instructions are given whilst the a/c is in OA (??). Then, to confuse matters further, although ATC has just confirmed the pilot’s descent information, they shortly give the instruction to maintain FL550 (?!).

I have set waypoint altitudes in the PF3 setup before connecting... but maybe they are part of the problem? I need Concorde to maintain 28000’ until it is over the ocean, and then (at least this is what I was trying to achieve) climb to FL500 until about 50% of the fuel has been used, and then climb again to FL550. (Before at least 50% of the fuel has been used up, the a/c struggles to get much above 54000’).

I suppose I could forget about trying to set this ‘step climb’ after FL280 and just set PF3 not to nag me about maintaining altitude at all (as Concorde alternately climbs and descends as it slowly attains cruise altitude at Mach 2), but I would certainly like to solve the issue of not getting timely descent instructions, if anyone has any ideas. (I am guessing that Concorde’s high cruise altitude is part of the problem too: if I were in a 747 at FL390, things would perhaps be working OK?).

Logs attached.

Thanks.
Author:  pschlute [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Hi Martin

Me again (been helping you on Flightsim.com)

Dave will have to deal with the lack of descent instructions, but for using Concorde in PF3 you could try a few options:

Setting an initial cruise of FL600 and then just set the maximum nag time and ignore the nag when it occurs.

Or set a FL500 cruise and then keep requesting a 2000 feet increase.

But to be honest i don't use ATC when flying Concorde. The cruise climb is one problem, and a stepped descent is another. Just too much hassle when you are doing the work of a 3man crew as it is !

Peter
Author:  martinlest [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
(..does setting the alt nag to zero turn it off? The pdf file doesn't say that it does. Or, if not, could I have to enter a large number to have a similar effect, e.g. 999)?
Author:  martinlest [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Hi again Peter! Thanks for the continued replies!! I think we 'corresponded' a lot in AVSIM too, (but I refuse to go onto the forums there these days...)

I'd like to keep using PF3 with Concorde ideally... I have just changed the KJFJ-LFPG flight plan (and my PF3 waypoint adjustments - never quite sure about the XXX entries: I attach a screenshot) to a simpler form. I have set one 'step' at 28000' and then an ascent to FL550 from FLUTE. After that I haven't set anything manually, jsut let FS9/PF3 do their stuff - I'll see what happens when I get to fly it again over the weekend at some stage. I am guessing that I still won't get a descent instruction approaching France, but I'll wait to see what Dave says about this.

Martin :)
Author:  Dave March [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Martin,

The only thing I can see that upset PF3 is that you descended before being given clearance to do so. You were later nagged to maintain FL 550 but ignored that and continued to descend.
Author:  martinlest [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Hi Dave. I started to descend because the pilot answered ATC, as Concorde came out of OA, saying that the a/c was descending from FLXXX to FLYYY (550 to 400??). I assumed, because of that, that PF3/ATC saw me as being in descent mode at that time, but that due to some quirk, the descent instruction had not been given. I was also getting close to landfall and should have been descending by that time (I thought I'd set my PF3 flight plan waypoints in order to do this) so as to get to subsonic speed in time. If I had tried to go back up to FL550, I would have had no chance of getting to LFPG correctly.

Why does the PF3 pilot tell ATC that the a/c is descending in that way, if it isn't? Did that call not show in the log? It is definitely there - it's happened with each transatlantic flight I've made in Concorde this week (six so far)

Thanks! :)
Author:  pschlute [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Martin, not to do with PF3, but when flying KJFK to London/Paris there is no period of level flight at 28000 as there is when flying London-NY. You are very quickly over the ocean out of NY so climb at 400 KIAS (autopilot speed mode) until you are at M0.90/0.95 then select MAX CLB and reheat.
Author:  martinlest [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Actually, you are right of course for flights out of JFK. So let's use Heathrow departures as an example then, where I do need to level off at 28000' for a time...

It's the lack of descent instructions that is my current problem tough, the departure works OK on the whole..
Author:  Dave March [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
Quote:
Why does the PF3 pilot tell ATC that the a/c is descending in that way, if it isn't? Did that call not show in the log? It is definitely there - it's happened with each transatlantic flight I've made in Concorde this week
That is an error and will be looked at going forward but just because your PNF said the wrong thing does not give you clearance to descend. :D
Author:  martinlest [ Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Concorde & PF3 - altitude problem
No, if the error is with the pilot's call and not with ATC, then I'll ignore it and wait to see what instructions I am given, but as I say, I think that will leave me way too high. I am flying KJFK-LFPG again at the moment so I'll see what happens if I ignore the pilot's statement about descent.
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