OnCourse Software
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TOD never given
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2321		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  mllgrennman [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  TOD never given
I've been flying PF3 for months...it is very rare when I get TOD at the 3X1 rule point...this time it never came at all...please consider my logs and see if there is a way for me to get the right TOD every flight...thanks.
Author:  Dave March [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
Firstly PF3 doesn't use a basic 3:1 rule, it is more complicated than that and takes into account your ground speed and rate of descent for the aircraft you are flying.

I think the main problem with this flight is the fact your last waypoint is over a 1000 miles from your destination. Once you hit your last waypoint PF3 goes into it's landing mode and the calculated TOD would not be used at that point. So, the best thing to do is to have your last waypoint at around 25 - 40 miles from your destination and that will fix a host of anomalies you experienced in this particular flight.
Author:  vololiberista [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
mllgrennman wrote:
I've been flying PF3 for months...it is very rare when I get TOD at the 3X1 rule point...this time it never came at all...please consider my logs and see if there is a way for me to get the right TOD every flight...thanks.
You should also remember that your TOD is calculated by your cockpit software. It is there only as advisory information for the pilots. It is not binding on ATC in real life. Use the waypoint adjustment page to help you get the correct profile.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
dmarch wrote:
So, the best thing to do is to have your last waypoint at around 25 - 40 miles from your destination
The problem is that it can't always be done...Midway Atoll to Wake Island in a 747-200...I was lucky to find the few waypoints I did.

Solution- "Waypoint override"...Maybe an option to have TOD triggered only by distance to airport/Altitude.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
vololiberista wrote:
You should also remember that your TOD is calculated by your cockpit software. It is there only as advisory information for the pilots. It is not binding on ATC in real life. Use the waypoint adjustment page to help you get the correct profile.
If TOD is given 600 miles before destination, it completely neutralizes the realism that users of this product seek...

PF3 is dependent on waypoints rather than 3X1 rule to trigger TOD...The problem is that writing the right waypoint is not always practical in flightsim.

This is a core weakness with the program, as I have mentioned in another post...and this example clearly demonstrates.
Author:  Dan77 [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
mllgrennman wrote:
The problem is that it can't always be done...Midway Atoll to Wake Island in a 747-200...I was lucky to find the few waypoints I did.
You can use waypoints based on geographical coordinates. They work fine in PF3.
Author:  mllgrennman [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
Well that's one way!...What would be the procedure for doing so?

Please let me know.

Thanks.
Author:  Hangar24 [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
dmarch wrote:
Firstly PF3 doesn't use a basic 3:1 rule, it is more complicated than that and takes into account your ground speed and rate of descent for the aircraft you are flying.

I think the main problem with this flight is the fact your last waypoint is over a 1000 miles from your destination. Once you hit your last waypoint PF3 goes into it's landing mode and the calculated TOD would not be used at that point. So, the best thing to do is to have your last waypoint at around 25 - 40 miles from your destination and that will fix a host of anomalies you experienced in this particular flight.
It would be helpful if you would tell us exactly how PF3 computes TOD so we can work around it's limitations. I get ATC requests to descent sometime 200 miles away from my destination as jet routes don't have that many waypoints. I end up just exiting PF3 because it not realistic. That and vectors just don't work well for me. Otherwise I enjoy PF3.
Author:  ThomasAH [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
With PFPX or FSC I can simply mark them on the map.
PFPX auto-assigns them names based on the lat/lon values, and the .pln file contains something like the following:
Code: Select all
    <ATCWaypoint id="52N008E">
      <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
      <WorldPosition>N52° 17' 0.00",E7° 49' 0.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
      <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>52N008E</ICAOIdent>
      </ICAO>
    </ATCWaypoint>
As a fallback you could use above snippet and insert and adjust it into your own .pln files.

Dave: Could you let PF3 insert an XXX waypoint within 25-40NM of the destination if the last waypoint is 50NM or more away?
Maybe at half the distance between the last waypoint and the destination if the last waypoint is between 50NM and 80NM, and at 40NM otherwise.
Author:  vololiberista [ Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TOD never given
Hangar24 wrote:
dmarch wrote:
Firstly PF3 doesn't use a basic 3:1 rule, it is more complicated than that and takes into account your ground speed and rate of descent for the aircraft you are flying.

I think the main problem with this flight is the fact your last waypoint is over a 1000 miles from your destination. Once you hit your last waypoint PF3 goes into it's landing mode and the calculated TOD would not be used at that point. So, the best thing to do is to have your last waypoint at around 25 - 40 miles from your destination and that will fix a host of anomalies you experienced in this particular flight.
It would be helpful if you would tell us exactly how PF3 computes TOD so we can work around it's limitations. I get ATC requests to descent sometime 200 miles away from my destination as jet routes don't have that many waypoints. I end up just exiting PF3 because it not realistic. That and vectors just don't work well for me. Otherwise I enjoy PF3.
Add your own waypoints as Thomas suggests. On very long ocean flights that are off airway then that would be done in real life anyway.
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