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Acars Atis and Taxi question
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1981		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  helix1250 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Acars Atis and Taxi question
Good morning :)

I just have a couple of questions, and I am sure that there are quick and easy answers.

Last night on a flight to LFLB I was in cruse and wanted to check the weather for my arrival. So I selected the Acars Atis and checked the information, I then for some reason compaired it to my ASN window. The two were very different and I was wondering if you had to be with in a certain distance of the airfield to get the correct info. Although I could have sworn I read somewhere this information was available no matter where you were in your flight. But I appreciate that the weather will always be changing.

The second question was after I landed and contacted tower for taxi instructions, I was told to taxi to terminal. I confirmed my taxi instructions, but never got TGS was this because it was a smaller airfield?

Logs and a picture of Acars and ASN window weather in zip file

Regards Rob
Author:  ThomasAH [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
helix1250 wrote:
Logs and a picture of Acars and ASN window weather in zip file
There should be a file TGS_Debug.log in your Logs directory, can you upload that, too?
Author:  helix1250 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
Sorry, here is the TGS Debug file.

Regards Rob
Author:  vololiberista [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
What afcad were you using for LFLB? The stock has "blank" for taxiway designators. Try landing there again (doesn't have to be the same flight) having designated a parking spot and see if TGS comes up with the same response.
I can see why the afcad has blank as that chart is not very clear. I can make out November, Charlie, November one and Sierra. The charts filed with Eurocontrol don't have parking designations either. So my guess is that TGS was as much in the dark as you.
Author:  helix1250 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
I just realised I was using LFLB FranceVFR, that might be one reason TGS doesn't work well. Plus as you say the charts aren't very good for LFLB. It not an issue as it's hardly a large airfield, it was more of me being inquisitive :)

I'll be interested in finding the answer to the weather thing i came across :)

Rob
Author:  Dave March [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
Hi Rob,

'Taxi to Terminal' is the default instruction from ATC and can mean a few things. One, you are close enough to the assigned runway/gate so actual instructions aren't necessary. Two, PF3 could not find a suitable route for whatever reason. Three, there are no vacant available parking spaces.

As for the weather report this is almost impossible to determine if there was an actual problem. PF3 simply uses the weather supplied by FSUIPC for the nearest weather station to your destination. According to the log the first attempt was unsuccessful, so then we retry but this time we use the actual Lat/Lon co-ordinates for your destination rather than the weather station ICAO.
Quote:
3/29/2016 20:07:39: 840 - FS Screen : Sending ACARS ATIS request for LFLB ......
3/29/2016 20:07:41: 400 - No ATIS Weather data detected for LFLB --> now retrying...
3/29/2016 20:07:43: 450 - ATIS Weather retrieved for LFLB using Lat/Lon co-ordinates 45.63935,5.880109
3/29/2016 20:07:43: 600 - No active AI at LFLB - Checking wind direction for runway-in-use!
3/29/2016 20:07:43: 600 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
3/29/2016 20:07:43: 600 - Extracting Weather Data from LFLB
3/29/2016 20:07:44: 140 - No ATIS Weather data detected for LFLB --> now retrying...
3/29/2016 20:07:46: 190 - Visibility from weather station: 50
3/29/2016 20:07:46: 190 - Wind DIR from weather station : 202
3/29/2016 20:07:46: 190 - Cloud alt from weather station : 3100
Author:  helix1250 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
Thank you for the replies, and I have to say after I landed the weather was almost the same.

But I have to congratulate you and PF3, I was given vectors to Rwy 36 and it managed to negotiate me through a gap in a mountain range and turn me down the valley and set me up on appoach perfectly.

Totally awesome :)

Rob
Author:  Dave March [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
helix1250 wrote:
Thank you for the replies, and I have to say after I landed the weather was almost the same.

But I have to congratulate you and PF3, I was given vectors to Rwy 36 and it managed to negotiate me through a gap in a mountain range and turn me down the valley and set me up on appoach perfectly.

Totally awesome :)

Rob
Thank you Rob and although I'd like to take full credit for your scenic flight through the mountains I'm afraid I can't. PF3, like any other ATC program, is mostly unaware of surrounding terrain. I know what's directly beneath you but that's about it, so I'm sorry to have to burst your bubble but that flight was due to your flight planning and some luck... but maybe we should keep that between the two of us, eh? ;)
Author:  RALF9636 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
helix1250 wrote:
... wanted to check the weather for my arrival. So I selected the Acars Atis and checked the information, I then for some reason compaired it to my ASN window. The two were very different and I was wondering if you had to be with in a certain distance of the airfield to get the correct info.
I've been struggling with this issue for years. It came up with all kinds of addons I've been using. I've been discussing it with several addon developers throughout the recent years.

To make a long story short, here is the conclusion:

The weather we see in the sim (P3D and FSX are the same in this regard) is not really produced by the weather engine (like ASN or Opus). It is produced by the sim itself using the data, the weather engine injects. And the sim is said to be not very good in doing this; and it becomes worse the further away from your aircraft it is. When the weather engine injects the weather the sim deals quite well with it around your current position. Further away the weather produced by the sim goes more and more astray from what the weather engine injected.
So the weather in the sim at stations far away from your position can be totally differrent to what your weather engine says. And since PF3 reads the weather in the sim (through FSUIPC) and not the weather of the weather engine, the destination ATIS is unusable as long as you get closer to your destination.
I found the limit to be somewhat between 50 and 80 nm. So if you want to be sure to get a reliable ATIS wait until you are 50 nm from your destination.

By the way this is also the reason why you might sometimes see AI aircraft landing and departing in opposite directions. The AI aircraft flying the „wrong“ direction was told to do so when you where still far away from the destination and the weather was not yet accurate. This was a major problem some years ago, when I often landed and found myself facing an AI aircraft taking off. By now the weather engines found ways to minimize this problem and it works quite well (still problematic with calm or variable winds).

Hope this helps.

Regards

Ralf
Author:  Dave March [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Acars Atis and Taxi question
I guess it would be good if all weather program developers could agree to use the same memory area and format for their products so those wishing to read it (i.e. PF3) would know where to look. ;)
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