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Constantly too late TOD !
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1972		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  ebiror [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Constantly too late TOD !
Sorry, but I am ALWAYS given the clearence to start the descent too late! Sometimes it seems the controller forgets the clearence to descent and when I ask for a lower altitude due to ..... I get the correct altitude of the initial STAR point.
I put the descentrate an the used airliner to 800 ft/min and even 500 ft/min, but there is absolutely no difference.
If I make a lot of phantasy waypoints in the flightplan and put all the altitudes manually then is is OK, but this is definetively not the sense of a ATC software, I find. I want to be given a realistic TOD to the initial STAR startpoint without being forced to use the speedbrake constantly and even to lower the gear.
Author:  awralls [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
That is also my experience. It seems that PF3 (and PFE before it) are based on the assumption that the user will provide the descent profile, which is clearly not how it should be. If matters are left to PFE, the descent process is hit-and-miss.

Andy
Author:  Dave March [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
ebiror wrote:
Sorry, but I am ALWAYS given the clearence to start the descent too late! Sometimes it seems the controller forgets the clearence to descent and when I ask for a lower altitude due to ..... I get the correct altitude of the initial STAR point.
I put the descentrate an the used airliner to 800 ft/min and even 500 ft/min, but there is absolutely no difference.
If I make a lot of phantasy waypoints in the flightplan and put all the altitudes manually then is is OK, but this is definetively not the sense of a ATC software, I find. I want to be given a realistic TOD to the initial STAR startpoint without being forced to use the speedbrake constantly and even to lower the gear.
Please attach a log file showing this problem. As far as I'm concerned the flight profiling is working just fine but if someone finds it is not I would like to check it out but I need a log file to do so
Author:  Dave Leesley [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
It works fine for me,we had issues during beta testing but that was sorted,not had issues since.
Author:  vololiberista [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
Dave Leesley wrote:
It works fine for me,we had issues during beta testing but that was sorted,not had issues since.
I concur no issues at all at present.
Author:  awralls [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
Well, that's OK then. As long as you two are OK....

It doesn't help the OP much, does it?

Andy
Author:  Dave March [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
awralls wrote:
Well, that's OK then. As long as you two are OK....

It doesn't help the OP much, does it?

Andy
The issue is currently being looked at and I appreciate knowing if a reported issue is the same for everyone or not.
Author:  RALF9636 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
May I ask two questions in this context?

I also experienced PF3 occasionally not giving me descent instructions when I reached my calculated TOD (most of the time PF3 does give me descent instructions in time). It never was a big issue to me because I just requested 9000 ft lower once or twice and all was fine.

But here are my questions that arose in these occasions:

1. What is the standard real world procedure: Does ATC decide when the descent begins? Or is it the pilot who requests to initiate descent according to the calculations of the FMC?

2. When PF3 clears me via a STAR: Does that include a clearance to descend according to the published procedure? Or do I have to wait for a descent instruction?

Thank you very much!

Ralf
Author:  Dave March [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
RALF9636 wrote:
May I ask two questions in this context?

I also experienced PF3 occasionally not giving me descent instructions when I reached my calculated TOD (most of the time PF3 does give me descent instructions in time). It never was a big issue to me because I just requested 9000 ft lower once or twice and all was fine.

But here are my questions that arose in these occasions:

1. What is the standard real world procedure: Does ATC decide when the descent begins? Or is it the pilot who requests to initiate descent according to the calculations of the FMC?

2. When PF3 clears me via a STAR: Does that include a clearance to descend according to the published procedure? Or do I have to wait for a descent instruction?

Thank you very much!

Ralf
As far as I know, and I stand to be corrected as I'm no RW expert but...

#1 - It doesn't matter what your FMC states, you cannot change altitude without instruction from ATC

#2 - Yes, but ATC may still instruct you to descend to a different altitude at any time or re-route you or cancel the STAR altogether.
Author:  RALF9636 [ Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Constantly too late TOD !
Thank you Dave for your quick reply!

#1: It's clear that you don't descent without instruction by ATC. What I meant was: What is the common procedure: Does the pilot request ATC to get descent instructions when the TOD calculated by the FMC is getting close? Or is the pilot just waiting for ATC to initiate the descent?

#2: That clarifies it. It might also be the solution of the (non-)issue this topic is about. At least for me I guess it always was after being cleared via a STAR that I waited for a descent instruction. Which wasn't necessary as it was inlcuded in the STAR clearance!

Thanks again for this great software and support!

Ralf
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