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Log Files: How can we read them?
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1956		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  flyblueskies [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Log Files: How can we read them?
It's great that we can provide log files for trouble shooting the program. I've noticed that many times, the log files reveal we've pressed the wrong button or did something else that is 'operator' error.

Instead of bringing the question here and providing the log files, is there anyway we can view the log files ourselves?

That way, after reviewing our own log file, we may easily see where we went wrong...and don't have to post a message here and wait for the answer.

We'd get the answer right away!

I would greatly appreciate a log file reader!

Thanks!
Author:  martinlest [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
I second that. Dave et al seem to be giving themselves extra work by making the log files unreadable by the end user - I sometimes used to be able to use the logs to troubleshoot problems and work out what was wrong myself.
Author:  vololiberista [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
martinlest wrote:
I second that. Dave et al seem to be giving themselves extra work by making the log files unreadable by the end user - I sometimes used to be able to use the logs to troubleshoot problems and work out what was wrong myself.
Dave has done it that way because in the past some people submitted fake logs. And it's not always true that you yourself could fix the problem. Sometimes there's something else that Dave need to see, look for and check. It's no extra work for any of us to read the log files.
Author:  flyblueskies [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
vololiberista wrote:
martinlest wrote:
I second that. Dave et al seem to be giving themselves extra work by making the log files unreadable by the end user - I sometimes used to be able to use the logs to troubleshoot problems and work out what was wrong myself.
Dave has done it that way because in the past some people submitted fake logs. And it's not always true that you yourself could fix the problem. Sometimes there's something else that Dave need to see, look for and check. It's no extra work for any of us to read the log files.
I understand where you're coming from. I'm not trying to fix anything, I'm simply trying to see what I'm doing wrong. I don't know how I would submit a 'fake' log file. The file is encrypted and I would still submit the encrypted file, if need be.

For me, I'm trying to figure out the interface between MCE and PF3. However, I can't 'see' the numbers MCE provides for my VR responses. In my case, it's a double trouble-shooting...what am I doing wrong in PF3 and what am I saying wrong in MCE.

I do understand if the answer is no, but really, it would be a great help if we could read the files ourselves.

Thank you.
Author:  vololiberista [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
flyblueskies wrote:
vololiberista wrote:
martinlest wrote:
I second that. Dave et al seem to be giving themselves extra work by making the log files unreadable by the end user - I sometimes used to be able to use the logs to troubleshoot problems and work out what was wrong myself.
Dave has done it that way because in the past some people submitted fake logs. And it's not always true that you yourself could fix the problem. Sometimes there's something else that Dave need to see, look for and check. It's no extra work for any of us to read the log files.
I understand where you're coming from. I'm not trying to fix anything, I'm simply trying to see what I'm doing wrong. I don't know how I would submit a 'fake' log file. The file is encrypted and I would still submit the encrypted file, if need be.

For me, I'm trying to figure out the interface between MCE and PF3. However, I can't 'see' the numbers MCE provides for my VR responses. In my case, it's a double trouble-shooting...what am I doing wrong in PF3 and what am I saying wrong in MCE.

I do understand if the answer is no, but really, it would be a great help if we could read the files ourselves.

Thank you.
Dave has encrypted them because in the past they were not and there were instances of some people changing some entries.

At the end of the day it's Dave's decision. It's his programme. The fact that you can send log files at all to help resolve bugs is a step that many other programmes don't have.
Author:  martinlest [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
Yes, no complaints! The system of automatic log file submission is great, it just seems that the encrypted logs will leave Dave et al with potentially more work than before... but if people 'fiddled' with them in PFE, then perhaps the opposite is true.
Author:  vololiberista [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
martinlest wrote:
Yes, no complaints! The system of automatic log file submission is great, it just seems that the encrypted logs will leave Dave et al with potentially more work than before... but if people 'fiddled' with them in PFE, then perhaps the opposite is true.
It's no extra work at all! all done in a trice.
Author:  flyblueskies [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
vololiberista wrote:

It's no extra work at all! all done in a trice.
vololiberista...looking at it from my side, there is a long delay.

Think of this. I send a log file with my post.

It's probably a day before I either get an answer or I'm able to check for my answer.

Now, I try to modify what I'm trying to say in MCE to activate the correct response in PF3...still doesn't work, so I post again along with my logs.

Another day goes by and I try again based on the log findings.

Again, no luck, so another day goes by as I again attach my logs, etc.

You see where I'm going with this?

It's possible this whole process can be painfully long...

Maybe we don't have the decoder...but is it possible to have a debug window we can activate, so that in real time, I see the 'keypresses' that MCE passes PF3?

I do appreciate the consideration though...whether it happens or not.

Thanks again,

flyblueskies
Author:  Dave March [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
flyblueskies wrote:
vololiberista wrote:

It's no extra work at all! all done in a trice.
vololiberista...looking at it from my side, there is a long delay.

Think of this. I send a log file with my post.

It's probably a day before I either get an answer or I'm able to check for my answer.

Now, I try to modify what I'm trying to say in MCE to activate the correct response in PF3...still doesn't work, so I post again along with my logs.

Another day goes by and I try again based on the log findings.

Again, no luck, so another day goes by as I again attach my logs, etc.

You see where I'm going with this?

It's possible this whole process can be painfully long...

Maybe we don't have the decoder...but is it possible to have a debug window we can activate, so that in real time, I see the 'keypresses' that MCE passes PF3?

I do appreciate the consideration though...whether it happens or not.

Thanks again,

flyblueskies
Shouldn't the MCE provide you with such a utility? Provided you send PF3 the correct key it will work and it doesn't care whether that's from your keyboard or any VR program, the end result is the same.
Author:  ThomasAH [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Log Files: How can we read them?
dmarch wrote:
Shouldn't the MCE provide you with such a utility? Provided you send PF3 the correct key it will work and it doesn't care whether that's from your keyboard or any VR program, the end result is the same.
I don't know if MCE does that, but another possibility would be to write a small program that registers the same hotkeys with FSUIPC and logs them, as FSUIPC passes the hotkeys to all programs.
Of course this would be overhead and would not help if other things as hotkey information (e.g. the context in which they have been pressed) is needed.

Dave, a suggestion: If the only purpose of the encryption is to prevent tampering with the log, maybe replace this by checksumming of the log, e.g.
Code: Select all
AAAAAAAA the first line
BBBBBBBB another line
CCCCCCCC something else
The first 8 characters would be the first 8 hex digits of a simple (i.e. not CPU intensive) checksum/hash algorithm, e.g. MD5 or something even more trivial. Doesn't have to be that secure, since you can change the secret with every updated version.
The hash would be calculated from the three concatenated strings "something secret", "hash of the previous line" (if available), and "content of the line".
Or just the last two if you use a HMAC algorithm, e.g. HMAC-MD5.

This way users can see the contents of the lines, but you can write a program to verify if the logs have been tampered with.
Since each line "signs" the hash of the previous line, you even know if somebody removed lines.
Since each line contains a hash to start from, you can even check only parts of a log, e.g. if only lines 400-450 have been pasted here.
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