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Approach and atc not good
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1508		 Page 6 of 8
Author:  Andydigital [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
A SID or a STAR is not part of your plan as far as PFE is concerned, you also cannot put waypoints closer than 10 miles apart from one another or from the airport itself, in most cases PFE will remove them if they are too close when you compile your plan, as explained in the manual and tutorial. All PFE needs to know is where your SID ends so that it can start controlling you and where you STAR begins so that it can hand navigation over to you. It doesn't care what you do when you are actually flying the procedure part of your route, although you will get speed adjustments if you are flying too fast for the approach.

As for your other question in a previous post, the FAF is for use when you are not using a STAR, that is where you are supposed to be vectored to so that you can start you final approach and join the ILS. In real life this is normally a fixed position but with PFE you can adjust it if you prefer a shorter or longer approach, just remember to take local terrain into account. Normally a STAR would end at the FAF, or in some cases at some other location so that ATC vectors you to final, but PFE as far as I understand it does not support that kind of approach, it expects you to get to the FAF point on your own if you decide to fly a STAR.

In most cases in real life procedures are very rarely used in their entirety, if at all, most airports are too busy these days to rely on SIDS and STARS alone, so being told to climb before you have ended your procedure (PD) is not that unrealistic. If you prefer to fly the whole PD just set a higher altitude (in the PFE SID interface) than the one you plan to hold at in your PD then ATC won't tell you to climb higher until you get to your first route waypoint, or at least that's how I remember it. I must admit its been a while since I flew a PD myself with PFE, I've been flying without PD's for months.

By the way I'm not getting involved in all the little questions in this thread any further forward as this has all been covered before many times on the forum. I'm only a volunteer moderator here and over the last couple of years I've hardly been on the scene due to other commitments, that situation hasn't changed but I'd thought I'd jump in and help out a little at the moment due to the flood of questions :lol:
Author:  pschlute [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
driver170 wrote:
Still can't get to grips of understanding adding waypoints! So lets say you last waypoint is 100 nm away can you not just add a star in your flight plan my case pfpx and that'll connect it up?
I already answered that question above.

When you export the PFPX plan into FSX ,the FSX plan does not contain the STAR waypoints. This is because FSX does not recognize STARS. Compare the PFPX and FSX plans you posted and you will see. It is the FSX plan that PFE uses to create its own waypoint plan. If the waypoints are not in the FSX plan, PFE cannot magic them up out of thin air.

As you have noted above most plans do not have STARS that start that far from the airport so in practice there is little need to add them.
Author:  driver170 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
Andy cheers for that extra input thankyou so much!

You did get back to my FAF alt question, you said you would enter the FAF alt in the sids and stars page only if you aren't flying a STAR but if i go to set that FAF alt into the box, i can't because you have to have the star active box crossed? Now if i active this it'll also activate a star? And then you wouldn't be getting vectored from your last waypoint?
Author:  driver170 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
pschlute wrote:
driver170 wrote:
Still can't get to grips of understanding adding waypoints! So lets say you last waypoint is 100 nm away can you not just add a star in your flight plan my case pfpx and that'll connect it up?
I already answered that question above.

When you export the PFPX plan into FSX ,the FSX plan does not contain the STAR waypoints. This is because FSX does not recognize STARS. Compare the PFPX and FSX plans you posted and you will see. It is the FSX plan that PFE uses to create its own waypoint plan. If the waypoints are not in the FSX plan, PFE cannot magic them up out of thin air.

As you have noted above most plans do not have STARS that start that far from the airport so in practice there is little need to add them.

Yes pretty all are within good distance!

Got another question if am doing long flights pfpx will spit out different cruise alt climb and descend alt how do you go about doing this within pfe?
Author:  Andydigital [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
driver170 wrote:
Andy cheers for that extra input thankyou so much!

You did get back to my FAF alt question, you said you would enter the FAF alt in the sids and stars page only if you aren't flying a STAR but if i go to set that FAF alt into the box, i can't because you have to have the star active box crossed? Now if i active this it'll also activate a star? And then you wouldn't be getting vectored from your last waypoint?
I never bother setting a FAF minimums or Trans ALT in the SIDS/STARS page in PFE, you don't really need it if you are following the PD correctly in an FMC, just fly the PD correctly and as you turn onto the ILS your Virtual CoPilot will automatically contact the tower if its enabled, otherwise tune to the tower manually as previously cleared to do so and contact them as you establish on the ILS. As pointed out in the instructions on the SIDS STAR page, all entries on that page are optional, I personally don't bother entering anything as PFE ATC cannot read out the proper names of the procedures anyway.
Quote:
Got another question if am doing long flights pfpx will spit out different cruise alt climb and descend alt how do you go about doing this within pfe?
If you are talking about step climbs, just setup the lowest cruise level in PFE, then later when your FMC says its time to climb higher just ask PFE for permission to climb higher i.e. press and hold H then press 2 (for 2 thousand feet higher to maintain RVSM) then release both keys. Or if you know exactly where you will be making a step climb beforehand and there is a waypoint near it in your plan use the Adjust Altitudes page during the planning phase of your flight in PFE and put a higher altitude where needed in the waypoints.

Or did I not understand the question?
Author:  pschlute [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
driver170 wrote:
Got another question if am doing long flights pfpx will spit out different cruise alt climb and descend alt how do you go about doing this within pfe?
Two ways:

Change the altitudes in the waypoints page of PFE to reflect your step climbs.

Or just leave the initial altitude in the PFE waypoints page , and during your flight request a higher FL when you wish to.
Author:  driver170 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
pschlute wrote:
driver170 wrote:
Got another question if am doing long flights pfpx will spit out different cruise alt climb and descend alt how do you go about doing this within pfe?
Two ways:

Change the altitudes in the waypoints page of PFE to reflect your step climbs.

Or just leave the initial altitude in the PFE waypoints page , and during your flight request a higher FL when you wish to.

1st way - will ATC give you instructions to do the climb or descend?

2nd way - i have heard this messes up your T/D is this true?
Author:  driver170 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
Andydigital wrote:
driver170 wrote:
Andy cheers for that extra input thankyou so much!

You did get back to my FAF alt question, you said you would enter the FAF alt in the sids and stars page only if you aren't flying a STAR but if i go to set that FAF alt into the box, i can't because you have to have the star active box crossed? Now if i active this it'll also activate a star? And then you wouldn't be getting vectored from your last waypoint?
I never bother setting a FAF minimums or Trans ALT in the SIDS/STARS page in PFE, you don't really need it if you are following the PD correctly in an FMC, just fly the PD correctly and as you turn onto the ILS your Virtual CoPilot will automatically contact the tower if its enabled, otherwise tune to the tower manually as previously cleared to do so and contact them as you establish on the ILS. As pointed out in the instructions on the SIDS STAR page, all entries on that page are optional, I personally don't bother entering anything as PFE ATC cannot read out the proper names of the procedures anyway.
Quote:
Got another question if am doing long flights pfpx will spit out different cruise alt climb and descend alt how do you go about doing this within pfe?
If you are talking about step climbs, just setup the lowest cruise level in PFE, then later when your FMC says its time to climb higher just ask PFE for permission to climb higher i.e. press and hold H then press 2 (for 2 thousand feet higher to maintain RVSM) then release both keys. Or if you know exactly where you will be making a step climb beforehand and there is a waypoint near it in your plan use the Adjust Altitudes page during the planning phase of your flight in PFE and put a higher altitude where needed in the waypoints.

Or did I not understand the question?

Thats perfect exactly what i wanted to hear but hearing things like it will mess up your T/D with the ATC
Author:  Andydigital [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
I believe that was fixed in the latest update that came out recently i.e. 2.15

All I did previously was keep requesting lower altitudes if ATC did do it for me as it should, then when I was handed over to approach I just asked for clearance to final at my own discretion.
Author:  driver170 [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Approach and atc not good
Andydigital wrote:
I believe that was fixed in the latest update that came out recently i.e. 2.15

All I did previously was keep requesting lower altitudes if ATC did do it for me as it should, then when I was handed over to approach I just asked for clearance to final at my own discretion.

Sweet so it was fixed then great !!!

Where you flying your approach without a STAR then to get discretion? Or am i picking you up wrong andy?
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