OnCourse Software

Sorry Dave I thought I had posted my log in the zip file I attached to my previous post. I'll upload that shortly for you.

Rob

Heres my log file, I did a flight this morning so its my old log as requested.

Rob

helix1250 wrote:

sorry to jump in on this thread, I am having TOD issues and decent levels not being given.

Tonight I had a my flight plan with a nice stepped down flight level, as per the charts and approach charts, as close to as I could get them. On my approach to LFST I was told to descend to FL230 just before GTQ VOR (FPL and logs are attached), my next height restriction was SAV at FL070. I stuck with my planned STAR arrival expecting vectors at any point. I ended up between 7-7.5 miles still at FL230 with no decent instructions, I manually requested a lower ALT.

But had to rush my decent when vectors were given, as a result I was already passed the ILS feather heading in the wrong direction to intercept the ILS.

I would appreciate some one looking at the logs and FLP.

Cheers Rob

If this was wrong to post this here please move it to a new or other thread.

I can't actually see anything wrong in your log and PF3 did exactly what was asked of it. When you say you had your flight plan with nice stepped altitudes as per your charts where did you make such adjustments because it doesn't look like you made any altitude changes in PF3?

dmarch wrote:

helix1250 wrote:

sorry to jump in on this thread, I am having TOD issues and decent levels not being given.

Tonight I had a my flight plan with a nice stepped down flight level, as per the charts and approach charts, as close to as I could get them. On my approach to LFST I was told to descend to FL230 just before GTQ VOR (FPL and logs are attached), my next height restriction was SAV at FL070. I stuck with my planned STAR arrival expecting vectors at any point. I ended up between 7-7.5 miles still at FL230 with no decent instructions, I manually requested a lower ALT.

But had to rush my decent when vectors were given, as a result I was already passed the ILS feather heading in the wrong direction to intercept the ILS.

I would appreciate some one looking at the logs and FLP.

Cheers Rob

If this was wrong to post this here please move it to a new or other thread.

I can't actually see anything wrong in your log and PF3 did exactly what was asked of it. When you say you had your flight plan with nice stepped altitudes as per your charts where did you make such adjustments because it doesn't look like you made any altitude changes in PF3?

I concur with Dave having just flown your exact fpl. PF3 started to step me down in time for GTQ at FL160. It continued to step me down to FL70 at SAV (which is also correct by the charts) then at SAV I was asked to descend to 3,500ft. So the descent profile is spot on.
And the cabin crew confirmed that no tea was spilt at any time!
Here are the logs so that Dave can compare.

What I meant Dave is that the PF3 the decent altitudes were pretty much as per the charts.

What happened was after I was asked by ATC to decend to FL230 I was at GTQ I was then not cleared down to FL070 at SAV VOR, well not until I was within around 7 NM of it. I was never going to make that altitude constraint in 7NM, FL230 to FL070 that was never going to happen. Then I was given vectors and asked to drop to FL040, which given I was already trying to fall out of the sky to make FL070 and even harder task. The vectors headed me finally on a 200 HDG to intercept the ILS, was never going to work as I was still dropping like a brick.

Anyway I did the same flight again this morning, using the same FLP. The climb to cruise was fine, cruise was fine, the first three decents were given dropping me from FL240 to FL210. I was then passed to Paris centre just around GTQ VOR and from there I was given no decent (as above) to SAV VOR. I was at FL210, but once I was given vectors and decent clearance I was back to being a brick and trying to get down to an impossible altitude in a extremely short distance. Once again i was vectored on a 200 HDG and obviously as above missed the ILS feather by a huge margin.

All I can say that even after the decent steps were listed in the PF3 altitude adjustment section, there appeared to be attempt to follow these altitudes.

Rob

helix1250 wrote:

What I meant Dave is that the PF3 the decent altitudes were pretty much as per the charts.

What happened was after I was asked by ATC to decend to FL230 I was at GTQ I was then not cleared down to FL070 at SAV VOR, well not until I was within around 7 NM of it. I was never going to make that altitude constraint in 7NM, FL230 to FL070 that was never going to happen. Then I was given vectors and asked to drop to FL040, which given I was already trying to fall out of the sky to make FL070 and even harder task. The vectors headed me finally on a 200 HDG to intercept the ILS, was never going to work as I was still dropping like a brick.

Anyway I did the same flight again this morning, using the same FLP. The climb to cruise was fine, cruise was fine, the first three decents were given dropping me from FL240 to FL210. I was then passed to Paris centre just around GTQ VOR and from there I was given no decent (as above) to SAV VOR. I was at FL210, but once I was given vectors and decent clearance I was back to being a brick and trying to get down to an impossible altitude in a extremely short distance. Once again i was vectored on a 200 HDG and obviously as above missed the ILS feather by a huge margin.

All I can say that even after the decent steps were listed in the PF3 altitude adjustment section, there appeared to be attempt to follow these altitudes.

Rob

I put your fpl into PF3 and got for the descent phase
SUTAL 24000
XXX 24000
GTQ 16000
STG48 12000
SAV 7000
And at SAV asked to descend to 3,500. Most of the time I was at less than 2,000fpm in descent. So the profile in PF3 is as about as good as it gets. The fpl was generated by PF3 with no wypt adjustments. So what you see here is what PF3 generated. All the descent calls were given in good time too.

Quote:

I put your fpl into PF3 and got for the descent phase
SUTAL 24000
XXX 24000
GTQ 16000
STG48 12000
SAV 7000
And at SAV asked to descend to 3,500. Most of the time I was at less than 2,000fpm in descent. So the profile in PF3 is as about as good as it gets. The fpl was generated by PF3 with no wypt adjustments. So what you see here is what PF3 generated. All the descent calls were given in good time too.

Well I got a similar looking PF3 FPL, BUT I never got the decent instructions! I was never asked to decend to SAV until the last minute. Not sure what else to say!

Rob

helix1250 wrote:

Quote:

I put your fpl into PF3 and got for the descent phase
SUTAL 24000
XXX 24000
GTQ 16000
STG48 12000
SAV 7000
And at SAV asked to descend to 3,500. Most of the time I was at less than 2,000fpm in descent. So the profile in PF3 is as about as good as it gets. The fpl was generated by PF3 with no wypt adjustments. So what you see here is what PF3 generated. All the descent calls were given in good time too.

Well I got a similar looking PF3 FPL, BUT I never got the decent instructions! I was never asked to decend to SAV until the last minute. Not sure what else to say!


Rob

Well try it again and if it re-occurs post another log. But at the moment I can't recreate your problem.

I'll post the log shortly from my flight this morning, that was exactly the same as last nights flight.

Rob

Edited, log now attached

helix1250 wrote:

I'll post the log shortly from my flight this morning

The attached log is from 12:58 onwards and only contains Tower complaining that you should contact Clearance first.