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best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
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Author:  pschlute [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
Dan77 wrote:
I think if you tick the SIDs box, PF3 may consider the SID to be completed at an altitude (either the altitude you specify or, if you don't set one, an altitude that PF3 determines). If you reach this altitude before your first waypoint, PF3 will end the SID.
That is correct.

I prefer howeverto use the SIDS checkbox on the SIDS/STARS page with an altitude set, so that I will get clearance to a higher altitude whilst flying the SID (and not be stuck at say 6000 feet for 40 odd nm). I find that although PF3 now considers the SID complete (even though I have not reached the first waypoint), it only gives clearance to higher altitude and does not attempt to start vectoring me. I cannot recall if the "continue own navigation" call occurs at the same time as the SID is complete (altitude reached) or if PF3 waits for the first waypoint, but I think the former.

Ralf, give both methods a try and see which you prefer.
Author:  vololiberista [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
RALF9636 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
That is essentially how I already understand and handle SIDs (and STARs).

It doesn't answer though, if or why I should assign the first waypoint as "End of SID" on the flightplan page of PF3, as suggested by pschlute.
It tells PF3 how to handle you. Whether to vector you or not.
Look at these examples
[ attachment ]
LIPZx.jpg (25.39 KiB) Viewed 3291 times
In this example I have set up a SID ROKIB 6J which has an altitude ceiling of FL140. I have also checked SIDS active (bottom left).
Here is the flight plan used by PF3
[ attachment ]
LIPZ.jpg (14.51 KiB) Viewed 3291 times
I Have placed the end of SID DP at fix PZ143 because that is (due to the performance of my aircraft) where I expect to reach FL140. Therefore ATC can clear me to my cruise from there and not have to wait until ROKIB. The SID instructions are "not below FL140 by ROKIB". So that allows me to climb however fast or slow as long as I am at or above FL140 by ROKIB. This is correct ATC practice. Unfortunately having an ATC add-on especially one as sophisticated as PF3 does mean that one has to learn about real ATC practice.
Author:  ThomasAH [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
RALF9636 wrote:
I guess it is the same for the Start of STAR?
There is a small difference:
If "STARs active" is disabled, but you have selected a start of STAR, then PF3 will clear you for the STAR when reaching the marked waypoint, but will vector you to the FAF after you have reached the last waypoint.
So in this situation you might want to set both, unless you want to fly a STAR that does not bring you to the FAF, e.g. BAMS2J or DOME2J for EDDG, which lead you from BAMSU or DOMEG to HMM (indeed very short STARs), and not directly to the FAF (KEMOT or IBATU).
Author:  RALF9636 [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
Very informative thread. Thanks to all!
Author:  pschlute [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
Yes it can seem very bewildering at first, but basically there is more than one way of setting a flight up with regard to SIDS and STARS. PF3 gives you different options which suit different departures/arrivals.
Author:  Thomas_LOLW [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
vololiberista wrote:
A SID is nothing more than a planned published route from a runway to your flightplan. It is not given to you by ATC (another misconception).
..that is not 100% true: I fly quite often on PilotEdge, and they give me SIDs from time to time (when they are busy), even when I did not file one.
Author:  vololiberista [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: best way to include SIDs in a flight plan?
Thomas_LOLW wrote:
vololiberista wrote:
A SID is nothing more than a planned published route from a runway to your flightplan. It is not given to you by ATC (another misconception).
..that is not 100% true: I fly quite often on PilotEdge, and they give me SIDs from time to time (when they are busy), even when I did not file one.
Yes but the SID they gave should be a published SID nevertheless. So as PIC you have to be prepared for it. There are a lot of differences in practice between FAA and ICAO.
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