OnCourse Software

Hi Dave

Been doing some flights on v.2.12 - nice work! PFE is still giving it's competition a run for its money.

I collected a mixed bag of ideas and observations below, some of the might already be on your list and some hopefully give you new ideas.


1. Given altimeter settings should always be read back, currently they are not.
exmpl:
ATC: sas112 radar contact, qnh 1012
PILOT: qnh 1012, sas 112

2. Handoff from tower to departure happens too soon imo, during the initial climb. Tower controllers would take into account that it's a busy phase. Suggest handoffs to happen at roughly 1500ft AGL or above (jets). Now it always happens at more like 400-500 AGL. If you wanted to make it even more realistic, it depends on the aircraft category too, small Cessna's initial climb is less hectic. Maybe a workaround would be to time it? One minute to a minute and a half from takeoff?

3. Speed control - as a general rule, during vectoring I'd recommend not ask for any speed lower than 160 knots on final (jets). I was flying an approach and the radar controller asked for 130 knots at fifteen miles which is quite unrealistic. The typical phraseology I hear below 160 is to ask to "reduce to minimum approach speed", but that's not available for now I guess.

4. ATC seems to base calls on altitude (local air pressure). If the local air pressure is very low, like 990 hPa, transition level is say 5000ft, and speed restriction is 250 below FL100, ATC will nag at you if you start to accelerate (correctly) at FL100, as your true altitude will be closer to 9000ft. I wonder if you can find a way to compensate for this?

5. If you're flying out of an AFIS airport which is handled as uncontrolled/multicom in PFE, how do you get your IFR clearance?

6. Is utilizing COM2 radio on "the list"? For ATIS purposes?

7. It would be a nice touch to get the expected arrival runway from center roughly 150NM out or at the last center frequency
ATC (center):sas112 good morning, radar contact, arrival runway 15
PILOT:roger, runway 15, sas112

8. Phraseology: after the opening call, the aircraft does not need to use the atc callsign anymore. It's just reserves the frequency unnecessarily and sounds a little unnatural to my ear.
ex:
PILOT:London control, sas112 with you FL350
ATC:sas112 radar contact

a little later on the same frequency…

PILOT: sas112 request FL370 (note no ATC callsign)
ATC: sas112 climb and maintain FL370

9. ATIS/ACARS: Any chance to get the ACARS report in raw metar format? Also, you might want to exclude cloud layers above FL200 from both..

Thanks Jet... great feedback as usual and much appreciated

1. Added to the list
2. ditto
3. You have control over that now... please see the INI File Settings section of the user guide
4. Added to the list
5. If it's uncontrolled/multicom then you can't
6. It is now
7. To the best of my knowledge that information would not come from a Centre control... these days... certainly in the UK that info plus your arrival gate, etc, would be obtained from your company frequency
8. My initial reaction is to disagree with your comment.... I have just emailed my chum who's an Airbus pilot
9. Already on the list

Hi Dave!

further comments..

3. I believe the aircraft type dependent speed control was active by default in the INI file by default after the 2.12 update? It still asked for 130 knots and the aircraft was an MD-80. I did change the additive to 20 now, so I'll see what happens!

5. What happens is I can make the usual traffic calls on multicom frequency. After takeoff I tune to departure frequency, and the FO voice initially checks in and reports climbing to a level, in my case FL110. Where did he get this number as no clearance was issued?

7. Yeah, one of those FIR dependent things I guess. In Scandinavia it's common procedure to hear the phraseology I described. It will make it a bit easier for the pilots to plan ahead. But I guess since PFE (and all addons like it) has difficulties predicting the runway in use, it would be hard to implement.

8. Another one that has different practises I guess. Officially, my ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony says callsigns can be omitted or shortened once two-way radio contact has been established. In practise this means that unless I haven't spoken to the controller for a long time, like half hour or so, I omit the atc callsign like in my example.

JET 1 wrote:

Hi Dave!


8. Another one that has different practises I guess. Officially, my ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony says callsigns can be omitted or shortened once two-way radio contact has been established. In practise this means that unless I haven't spoken to the controller for a long time, like half hour or so, I omit the atc callsign like in my example.

ATC voice frequencies operate over a very narrow band and especially when controllers are speaking to a lot of a/c they need to know that the a/c is talking to them and not an airfield say 30-50DME away.

I can tell you that omitting the correct call sign is an RT licence exam fail!!!
vololiberista

PS as for your previous coment regarding handoff from tower to approach it is entirely dependant on a) the size of the ATZ and b) how busy the airport is.

At london Heathrow ATC has about 70-90 seconds between launches so an early handoff is desirable. Bear in mind that a jet transport will reach 4,000ft in rather less time than a Cessna! See extract below 2xred

EGLL AD 2.17 — ATS AIRSPACE
Designation and lateral limits Vertical
limits
Airspace
Classification
1 2 3
London Control Zone (CTR)
513611N 0004133W - 513611N 0001253W thence clockwise by an arc of a circle radius 12 nm centred on 512812N
0002713W to 512013N 0001255W - 512013N 0003800W - 512104N 0004242W thence clockwise by an arc of a
circle radius 12 nm centred on 512812N 0002713W to 513611N 0004133W.
2500 ft ALT/
SFC
A †
London Heathrow Aerodrome Traffic Zone (ATZ)
Circle radius 2.5 nm centred on longest notified runway (09L/27R) 512839N 0002741W 2000 ft aal/
SFC
A †
4 ATS unit call sign:
Language(s):
Heathrow Director.
English
5 Transition altitude: 6000 ft.
6 Remarks: See EGLL AD 2.22, Flight Procedures, item 8 for details of Local Flying Areas.
Hours: See AD 2.18
† Refer to Section ENR 1.4 for Notifications.

AD 2-EGLL-1 - 7
Civil Aviation Authority
EGLL AD 2.18 — ATS COMMUNICATION FACILITIES
Service
Designation
Callsign Channel
MHz
Hours of Operation Remarks
Winter Summer
1 2 3 4 5
APP Heathrow Director 119.725
120.400 §
127.525 §
134.975 §
121.500 †
H24 H24 ATZ hours coincident with Approach hours.
TWR Heathrow Tower 118.500 DOC 25 nm/4000 ft.
118.700 0700-2200
or as directed
0600-2200
or as directed
DOC 25 nm/4000 ft
124.475 §
121.500 †
H24 H24
† Emergency Channel O/R.
Heathrow Delivery 121.975 ‡ 0630-2200
or as directed
0530-2200
or as directed
DOC 5 nm/GND
‡ Ground Movement Planning Departing
aircraft are to make initial call to 'Heathrow
Delivery' on this frequency during hours of
operation. At other times call 'Heathrow
Ground'.
Heathrow Ground 121.900 Ø
121.700 Ø
121.850 Ø
As directed by ATC As directed by ATC DOC 5 nm/GND
Ø Ground Movement Control.
RAD Heathrow Radar 125.625 ◊ 0700-2030 0600-1930 DOC 60 nm/20,000 ft.
◊ Special VFR and Helicopter flights in the
London CTR. These flights will additionally
receive a service from the following: Thames
Radar (132.700 MHz): 0630-0700 and 2030-
2200. Heathrow Director (119.725 MHz):
2200-0630. (One hour earlier in summer)
127.525 §
121.500 †
H24 H24
Arrival ATIS Heathrow Information 128.075
113.750
115.100
0320-2300 0220-2200
DOC 60 nm/20,000 ft.
Broadcast on Bovingdon VOR
Broadcast on Biggin VOR
Departure ATIS 121.935 DOC 5 nm/GND
This is an 833 KHz frequency. Non 833
equipped aircraft should contact Delivery on
121.975 MHz to obtain weather information
FIRE Heathrow Fire 121.600 Available when Fire vehicle attending aircraft
on the ground in an emergency.
Non-ATS Frequency.
§ When instructed by ATC.
17 Dec 09

Hi Vololiberista

Callsigns - like I said, practises vary somewhat area by area. I appreciate your view but things aren't that black and white. Officially, and I repeat this is from ICAO manual, callsigns can be omitted or shortened when two-way contact is established. And my RT license has remained valid through all the checkflights so far But, then again a compromise needs to be made, and I guess I have to live with my ears hurting a little.

Regarding tower handoffs, you're right. At busy airports, the departure procedure can even include contacting departure automatically when passing through an altitude. Not sure if that applies at Heathrow?

However, unless the procedures can be made customizeable and airport specific (which is a whole different concept I've been thinking about), there needs to be some kind of a middle ground. In the case of FS, the ATC system will not launch AI aircraft at a real world pace, so based on that a universal handoff at 400agl would not be justified.

Well Guys, whatever I implement will be configurable