OnCourse Software

This same issue is buried somewhere in a thread of a different title (I couldn't locate it).. since it is the one issue I get over and over again, I am posting about it again anyway.

ATC will instruct me to climb to a certain altitude:

"Climb to Flight Level 200"

but then I hear no more. When I realise 'it's that problem again', I check in to ATC, only to hear the pilot say this:

"... out of flight level 200 for flight level 330"

that is then always confirmed by ATC.

No instruction to climb to 33000' had been given (nothing on the onscreen COM log either). If I try to climb to 33000', I am soon told by ATC to maintain flight level 200. I never get an instruction to climb above that (but if I check in again, the same exchange as above is always repeated), so I either stay at that low altitude and mess up my whole VNAV profile (in the FMC) or I just turn PF3 off..

I start my flight in Mode 1 and switch to Mode 2 at or soon after take off. It might be that there is a slight delay in acting on some ATC frequency change instructions occasionally, but I don't think that any reasonable inadvertent delay (and I wasn't aware of any long delays on my part in the current flight - I switched to Mode 2 not that long after takeoff, so any frequency changes should have been automatic) should be allowed to trigger this kind of problem, surely? What happens in the real world if a pilot fails to read back an instruction to change COM frequency? The instruction would be repeated after a short time. In PF3, if there were no reply/confirmation from the pilot to an instruction to change, couldn't there also be a 'nag' after a minute or so (assuming that that is the reason for this error)?

I cut the current flight (as per log attached) short...

Thanks Dave

Martin

Quote:

if there were no reply/confirmation from the pilot to an instruction to change (radio frequency), couldn't there also be a 'nag' after a minute or so

Hello, hello?

The Beta group is currently evaluating some options regarding what should happen if the user does not make contact after a handoff when using CP Mode 0 or 1, but there won't be any changes until the next maintenance release so for the time being if you choose to use Mode 0 or 1 you will need to make sure that you make contact promptly after handoffs. If you are still having problems use Mode 2 for now.

Thanks Dan. I use Mode 2, but sometimes switch over from Mode 1 (I don't use Mode 2 before takeoff, for the same reasons as below) after take-off a bit late (not usually more than a minute or two).

It would be good to have the option for ATC to 'nag' the pilot after a short time, if there is no confirmation by the pilot to the initial request. That would be realistic...

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)... My two cents worth, anyway,

Martin

martinlest wrote: *

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks Dan. I use Mode 2, but sometimes switch over from Mode 1 (I don't use Mode 2 before takeoff, for the same reasons as below) after take-off a bit late (not usually more than a minute or two).

It would be good to have the option for ATC to 'nag' the pilot after a short time, if there is no confirmation by the pilot to the initial request. That would be realistic...

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)... My two cents worth, anyway,

Martin

Agree, like "Did you copy?" That would be ideal...but...if I'm not wrong about how PF3 works, it would imply that this sentence is recorded and duplicated for all voices. If that is the case, I do not think I will see that option for a long time, if at all...

Let us hope that other solutions can be found.

Regards,

'Did you copy' has already been recorded

dmarch wrote: *

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:57 pm

'Did you copy' has already been recorded

But I think "Did you copy" is frowned upon, and it is usually better to repeat the instructions.

Frowning was something people used to do pre-botox

Yes, a repetition would be preferable...

Any thoughts on this, or am I the only one who would really like this as an option?

Quote:

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)...

martinlest wrote: *

Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:07 pm

Any thoughts on this, or am I the only one who would really like this as an option?

Quote:

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)...

Sounds like a good idea, but how should the interface look like?
An additional checkbox in options that makes VCP mode 2 not automatically accept runways?
(because usually I would want the VCP to accept the runway in mode 2)

Do you know that you can close runways in PF3's SIDs/STARs page? This will only affect you/PF3, not AI aircraft, so you can close 27L on that airport and PF3 will never give you this runway. You can even distinguish between closing for take-off, landing or both.