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Misleading ATC

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JohnY
Post subject: Misleading ATC
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:38 pm
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I've had this before but this was the worst.

All sorts of things happened on this IFR flight. Firstly, the GPS gave me the correct route by the line but went completely awry with the waypoints a little way into the fight.

I continued and was approaching KAMA - Rick Husband Intl., Amarillo in the most appalling weather and couldn't see hand in front of my face due to pouring rain and dense low cloud.

ATC gave me a clearance to runway 31 which had no ILS frequency. There was no way I was going to be able to land visually, so I asked for an ILS runway. I got a; 'We'll check' message and waited a long time for a definitive instruction and was getting nearer and nearer to the airport, so I picked runway 22 to land, entered the frequency 111.1 and set the arrow to 22 and started an approach procedure for that runway.

Having, caught the ILS I pressed 8 to declare I had the airport. Being 'bloody minded' I suppose, the controller then gave me permission to land on runway 4!

By this time I was on my final approach and had got completely fed up with being messed about so I landed on 22. There was actually an aircraft waiting at the holding point as I landed so why couldn't the controller give me 22 to land?

After landing instead of complying with the instruction to turn right off the runway, I turned left and got the TGS immediately and was guided to the gate.

What was that all about?!

John

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:08 pm
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Code: Select all
30/04/2017 15:26:23: 450 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 with you out of Flight Level 180 for 17 thousand IFR  '
30/04/2017 15:26:34: 560 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Altimeter is 2980  '
30/04/2017 15:27:18: 040 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
30/04/2017 15:27:18: 560 - Active Runway is set to 31
30/04/2017 15:27:18: 740 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Descend to 6 thousand
    Cleared to final for Sierra Tango Approach runway 31 at pilot's discretion
    Contact Tower on 118.3 when established.  '
30/04/2017 15:27:35: 030 - Transcript: 'Roger Out of 17 thousand for 6 thousand until established on final for runway 31
    Contact Tower on 118.3 when established.  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
30/04/2017 15:28:20: 300 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
30/04/2017 15:28:20: 820 - Weather conditions do not require ILS!!
30/04/2017 15:28:20: 820 - Active Runway is set to 31
30/04/2017 15:28:47: 510 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 request an instrument approach  '
30/04/2017 15:28:54: 640 - Transcript: 'Stand by. We'll check  '
30/04/2017 15:29:01: 720 - Active Runway is set to 4
30/04/2017 15:29:03: 760 - Active Runway is set to 4
30/04/2017 15:43:49: 200 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Position Report 16 miles from Kilo Alpha Mike Alpha to the east at 1516 local IFR  '
30/04/2017 15:44:03: 410 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 16 miles from Kilo Alpha Mike Alpha at 1516 local Altimeter is 2977  '
30/04/2017 15:56:27: 810 - Transcript: 'Approach   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 has the airport  '
30/04/2017 15:56:34: 930 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Contact Tower on 118.3  '
30/04/2017 15:56:43: 170 - Transcript: '118.3   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
30/04/2017 15:56:52: 430 - Transcript: 'Tower   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 at 8 Miles to the northeast at 6 thousand IFR Landing  '
30/04/2017 15:57:01: 630 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 continue Approach you're number 1 for Landing  '
30/04/2017 15:57:09: 890 - Transcript: 'continue Approach number 1 for Landing   Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
30/04/2017 15:58:04: 670 - Transcript: '  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633 Winds 305 at 42 Altimeter is 2977 Cleared to land runway 4  '
30/04/2017 15:58:16: 930 - Transcript: 'Cleared to land runway 4  Juliet Charlie Yankee 633  '
When runway 4 was selected, the wind direction was 312, so 86 degree from runway 4 (38 degree) and 94 degree from runway 22 (218 degree).
So switching a runway with ILS worked and found the correct runway, but the bug is that it wasn't announced to you. I think there have been changes when requesting a different runway in the upcoming release 3.4.0, so this may already be fixed.
Can you verify this again after the next release?

Some additional comments:
- Weather condition were reported as VMC (visibility 5 miles), that's why you received a runway without ILS.
- Using hotkey 8 to announce having the airport might not be what you want. I think (but I am currently not sure) that this means "I see the airport, so I'll do a visual approach". But it seems to be OK here, maybe because you explicitly requested an instrument approach before. Can anyone using hotkey 8 during IFR confirm this?

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:44 pm
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Thanks for the explanations Thomas. Yes, I'll verify the change when I have the next update release......I will try to remember!

S'funny. I always use 8 to announce I have the runway, or, at least, if I don't, the co-pilot does. This happens immediately after the ILS is grabbed and the aircraft starts changing direction. In reply we get a clearance to land.

Incidentally, no way was the visibility 5 miles. I had to rely on the ILS because I could only see the runway when we broke through the cloud about a mile away and a few minutes before touching down making the landing even more dicey because either the runway frequency was slightly off or the wind was strong across because to avoid landing on the verge I had to steer it back to the runway.

John
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 2:14 pm
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JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 01, 2017 1:44 pm
Thanks for the explanations Thomas. Yes, I'll verify the change when I have the next update release......I will try to remember!
I meant the update surprisingly released yesterday :)
JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 01, 2017 1:44 pm
S'funny. I always use 8 to announce I have the runway, or, at least, if I don't, the co-pilot does. This happens immediately after the ILS is grabbed and the aircraft starts changing direction. In reply we get a clearance to land.
The last instruction before that is:
"Contact Tower on 118.3 when established."
So when the co-pilot sees you established, he tunes to the tower frequency and "presses" the 1 hotkey (check-in for landing).
So no need to press 8 with Approach just to confirm that you are established, because this just causes "Contact Tower on 118.3" to be repeated.
JohnY wrote: *  Mon May 01, 2017 1:44 pm
Incidentally, no way was the visibility 5 miles. I had to rely on the ILS because I could only see the runway when we broke through the cloud about a mile away and a few minutes before touching down making the landing even more dicey because either the runway frequency was slightly off or the wind was strong across because to avoid landing on the verge I had to steer it back to the runway.
You had 42 knots wind. Coming about 90 degree from the side resulting in ... (quick calculation) ... 42 knots crosswind! Time to declare some missed approaches until the wind or visibility changes, or request going to the alternate :)

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:06 pm
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Yeah, yeah, but by then it was my dinner time!

Good. Thanks. I'll get that update this afternoon.

John
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:42 pm
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JohnY wrote: *  Tue May 02, 2017 2:06 pm
Yeah, yeah, but by then it was my dinner time!
In these situations I declare an emergency :lol:

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Dave Leesley
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:17 pm
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 pm
Location: Yorkshire
 
ThomasAH wrote: *  Tue May 02, 2017 4:42 pm
JohnY wrote: *  Tue May 02, 2017 2:06 pm
Yeah, yeah, but by then it was my dinner time!
In these situations I declare an emergency :lol:
Wonder if Dave could implement that in a future update as an addition to declaring an emergency..."Me dinners ready and i'm going to get it in the neck" :lol:

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JohnY
Post subject: Re: Misleading ATC
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:01 pm
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Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:42 pm
 
Yers, well. I got the update. I've had meals, been to the golf club and been busy but I'm glad to report this afternoon's short IFR flight in the Mooney from KOKC Will Roberts to KICT Wichita Mid Continent went perfectly.

I just love it when I can get away from the European weather and simply fly; no visibility in thick cloud and pouring rain and can't see a damn thing from start to finish! :( I'm coming back home! :roll:

John
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