Questions on approaches to uncontrolled fields.

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bobsk8

Post subject: Questions on approaches to uncontrolled fields.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:03 pm

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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:44 pm

1. My flight plan altitude was set at 10,000 ft. After activating FP with Flight service, I took off and checked in with departure, and departure cleared me to 7,000 ft. I flew for many miles and finally was told to resume my own navigation and was never told to climb any higher than the preciously assigned 7,000 ft. I asked for 8,000 ft for terrain clearance, and was given the OK. No more altitude instructions until time for descent.

2. Approaching KAVX, I was given a vector to the airport from about 25 miles away and no further vector instruction at all. I was cleared to a lower altitude, I believe 4,000 ft. I over flew the airport, and kept going for over 16 miles past the airport, on the same vector I had been assigned over 40 miles ago. I was never given a VFR squawk or radar service terminated . At 18 miles past the airport I asked for vectors to the approach, and was told " Not at this time". I finally asked for clearance to final at pilots discretion at almost 19 miles from the runway, and used GPS to get back to airport and land.

Now to make sure, I am not making a mistake, when I have a cruise altitude in the FP, is it ATC's job to clear me to that altitude, or am I supposed to do that on my own, after I am given the instruction to " resume my own navigation?

When told to over fly a runway with a vector, at an uncontrolled field, am I supposed to get further vectors for the approach to the assigned runway, or is that something I am supposed to do on Unicomm, on my own, with no instruction to do this from ATC, once I have a visual on the airport

( I Posted this on another thread, but was instructed to make a separate thread for this question)

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ThomasAH

Post subject: Re: Questions on approaches to uncontrolled fields.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:21 pm

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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm

bobsk8 wrote:
1. My flight plan altitude was set at 10,000 ft. After activating FP with Flight service, I took off and checked in with departure, and departure cleared me to 7,000 ft. I flew for many miles and finally was told to resume my own navigation and was never told to climb any higher than the preciously assigned 7,000 ft. I asked for 8,000 ft for terrain clearance, and was given the OK. No more altitude instructions until time for descent.

You have enabled SID, and PF3 decided on 7000ft as the SID altitude.

Code: Select all

9/8/2016 9:58:13 AM: 590 - Transcript: 'LOS ANGELES CENTER Cessna Romeo Tango Oscar Requesting 8 thousand  '
9/8/2016 10:02:47 AM: 990 - Transcript: 'Cessna Romeo Tango Oscar resume own navigation  '

Then you requested 8000ft earlier than (I think) PF3 wanted to clear you for 10000ft. At this point PF3 assumed that you do not want to change your altitude (or would manually ask for a different altitude) and adjusted further waypoints from 10000ft to 8000ft .
I'm not sure what the best behaviour would be here. Dave?
But in the end, if you can request an altitude once, you can do it again, so even if PF3 should behave differently, at least there is a workaround

bobsk8 wrote:
2. Approaching KAVX, I was given a vector to the airport from about 25 miles away and no further vector instruction at all. I was cleared to a lower altitude, I believe 4,000 ft. I over flew the airport, and kept going for over 16 miles past the airport, on the same vector I had been assigned over 40 miles ago. I was never given a VFR squawk or radar service terminated . At 18 miles past the airport I asked for vectors to the approach, and was told " Not at this time". I finally asked for clearance to final at pilots discretion at almost 19 miles from the runway, and used GPS to get back to airport and land.

Code: Select all

9/8/2016 10:21:12 AM: 010 - Transcript: 'Cessna Romeo Tango Oscar Turn left heading 190  '
9/8/2016 10:21:57 AM: 360 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 206
9/8/2016 10:22:13 AM: 730 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 206
9/8/2016 10:22:20 AM: 800 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 206
...
9/8/2016 10:41:09 AM: 580 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 204
9/8/2016 10:41:28 AM: 900 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 204
9/8/2016 10:41:34 AM: 460 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 204
9/8/2016 10:41:41 AM: 270 - Not within Target Hdg of 190 Current Hdg: 204

ATC waited (too) patiently for you to turn heading 190 (with some tolerance, but less than 14 degrees)

bobsk8 wrote:
Now to make sure, I am not making a mistake, when I have a cruise altitude in the FP, is it ATC's job to clear me to that altitude, or am I supposed to do that on my own, after I am given the instruction to " resume my own navigation?

It still is ATC's job to clear you for different altitudes. You may only change your heading according to your flight plan. So it was absolutely correct that you stayed at 8000ft!

bobsk8 wrote:
When told to over fly a runway with a vector, at an uncontrolled field, am I supposed to get further vectors for the approach to the assigned runway, or is that something I am supposed to do on Unicomm, on my own, with no instruction to do this from ATC, once I have a visual on the airport

This was caused by the situation above.

bobsk8 wrote:
( I Posted this on another thread, but was instructed to make a separate thread for this question)

Thank you

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Questions on approaches to uncontrolled fields.

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