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Runway assignement at departure Airport
http://www.ocs-support.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3084		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BerndB [ Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Runway assignement at departure Airport
would it be possible to add an information at the initial instructions by delivery which runway can be expected? I usually depart from EDDH and because of the usual wind directions in northern Germany and the special airport layout, most of the time the 33 and the 23 have both wind from near their direction. In real world, when wind direction is something between 330 and 230 which is most the case the 23 is mainly used for landing and the 33 for take-off. And this is what exactly what PF3 ATIS is telling me, that both runways are I use, but I would need to know in advance to which runway PF3 Ground control will sent me for take off. One thing is that I need to program my MCDU with the runway and the departure and this is usually done at the gate. And on the other hand I need to know for the GSX pushback in which direction I want my nose. I had the situation already that I took a look at the incoming aircrafts by AI traffic and they landed at RW 23, though I expected RW 23 will be given to me and I put it into my flightplan and I was pushed with nose heading left on the taxiway. Then I got my taxi-clearance for take-off runway 33 and I needed to make a 180 degree turn and reprogram my flightplan. Of course I could set the runway assignments in PF3 for the 23 and 33 to allow only takeoff for one of them, but that's more a workaround. Id would be more realistic if clearance give you the information like "expect runway xx for takeoff" or something. It´s just that the information that PF3 uses to assign the take-off runway within the taxi-clearance, could be given also at the clearance for gate departure (delivery).

reg. Bernd
Author:  ThomasAH [ Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
I suggest closing 33 for landing and 23 for take-off using PF3's SIDs/STARs page.

Of course then it could still happen that runway 15 is used for take-off instead of 33, depending on the wind and AI behaviour, so either you have to close it as well and/or edit the settings depending on the current weather.
Author:  Dan77 [ Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
Remember also that you can request a runway change for departure. If you have set up your FMC for a departure on 23 and you are told to taxi to 33, you can request a runway change. After you have acknowledged your original taxi instructions, TGS becomes active, so you will need to deactivate it (hotkey 1) before requesting the runway change (ctrl/shft/w).

A neat trick (thanks for the suggestion Ralf) is to use CP Mode 1 at the start of the flight, so your copilot will not automatically acknowledge the first taxi instruction. You can then request a runway change without the need to deactivate TGS first. As you are taxiing to the runway you can change to CP Mode 2 for the rest of the flight.
Author:  ThomasAH [ Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
Dan77 wrote: *  Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm
A neat trick (thanks for the suggestion Ralf) is to use CP Mode 1 at the start of the flight, so your copilot will not automatically acknowledge the first taxi instruction. You can then request a runway change without the need to deactivate TGS first. As you are taxiing to the runway you can change to CP Mode 2 for the rest of the flight.
Ah, yes, that's actually what I'm using, too, so I don't have to listen to those extremely long taxi instructions on e.g. EHAM to a runway that I don't want to use anyway :)
(and so I can say "now I'm ready to taxi" when I'm really ready to taxi, not minutes before that)
Author:  BerndB [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
Dan77 wrote: *  Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm
After you have acknowledged your original taxi instructions, TGS becomes active, so you will need to deactivate it (hotkey 1) before requesting the runway change (ctrl/shft/w).
I´ve deactivated TGS anyway, would that mean it will not becomes active then?
Dan77 wrote: *  Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm
A neat trick (thanks for the suggestion Ralf) is to use CP Mode 1 at the start of the flight, so your copilot will not automatically acknowledge the first taxi instruction. You can then request a runway change without the need to deactivate TGS first. As you are taxiing to the runway you can change to CP Mode 2 for the rest of the flight.
Well you know I always use PF3 with MCE. Therefore I wouldn´t set any CP Modes. But anyway, what you say, and I really appreciate your help, is what I already knew. To restrict the runway usage on one side or request another departure RW on the other, is just some kind of workaround and usually don´t happen in real world, because the Pilots are being told by the controllers which runway is in use for take-off usually before gate departure. If not, the Pilots can ask Ground or delivery at any time, if they don´t know this already by heard the instructions given to their colleagues who departed before.
And this is something weird, because in my case at EDDH, ground give the AI-traffic departing before myself the instructions for RW 23 for take-off, but when I came to taxi-clearance I was instructed to use the 33. :shock:

Maybe it´s something for further development to build in something like this I suggested. Of course I´am already very happy with this great ATC of PF3. I even remember those days when ProFlight 2000 came along, what a great milestone in getting more immersion. The option to use MCE with PF3 is the cream hood and have the FO handling the ATC. But as always in life, what you have you don´t miss and you want even more :lol:
Author:  ThomasAH [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
BerndB wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 am
And this is something weird, because in my case at EDDH, ground give the AI-traffic departing before myself the instructions for RW 23 for take-off, but when I came to taxi-clearance I was instructed to use the 33. :shock:
Strange, usually PF3 prefers the same runway the sim assigns to aircraft. Maybe another aircraft was on final for runway 33?
BerndB wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 am
The option to use MCE with PF3 is the cream hood
I'm not sure if anyone not knowing the German expression "Sahnehäubchen" understands this.
Those should read this as "cherry on the cake" or "icing on the cake", whatever sounds tastier for them :)
Author:  RALF9636 [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
I agree it would be nice to know the runway before gate departure.

The problem is that PF3 assigns the runway according to which runway AI traffic uses at that moment (which is the only way to mostly avoid head-on traffic with AI). And AI is a little chaotic sometimes, in particular with calm or changing winds. So even if PF3 would give you an expected runway with the initial clearance you might end up with a different runway when you are ready to taxi a few minutes later. Alternatively PF3 would stick with the initially expected runway and you might be facing AI traffic in the opposite direction. So nothing would be won by that.

As long as AI is not intelligently handled by the sim - or an addon (there once was the promising AIController, where you could even set the runway to be used by AI; but the development apparently has been stopped some time ago) - I don't see a satisfying solution for this.

So the already mentioned workarounds for now are the only way to handle this. To add a third workaround: Ask for taxi clearance before pushback.
Author:  RALF9636 [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
ThomasAH wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:05 am
BerndB wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 am
The option to use MCE with PF3 is the cream hood
I'm not sure if anyone not knowing the German expression "Sahnehäubchen" understands this.
Those should read this as "cherry on the cake" or "icing on the cake", whatever sounds tastier for them :)
Everyone who uses MCE and PF3 knows that "cream hood" in this context can only mean "icing on the cake"! :D
Author:  BerndB [ Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Runway assignement at departure Airport
RALF9636 wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:54 pm
The problem is that PF3 assigns the runway according to which runway AI traffic uses at that moment (which is the only way to mostly avoid head-on traffic with AI). And AI is a little chaotic sometimes, in particular with calm or changing winds. So even if PF3 would give you an expected runway with the initial clearance you might end up with a different runway when you are ready to taxi a few minutes later. Alternatively PF3 would stick with the initially expected runway and you might be facing AI traffic in the opposite direction. So nothing would be won by that.
Agree. In real world, if something strange would happen that the wind direction has changed that dramatically, ground would let the taxiing aircrafts stay on the runway that was already given as long a change would end up in a mess. Or would let the captain decide if he wish to change the TO direction.
RALF9636 wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:54 pm
As long as AI is not intelligently handled by the sim - or an addon (there once was the promising AIController, where you could even set the runway to be used by AI; but the development apparently has been stopped some time ago) - I don't see a satisfying solution for this.
Well, to be honest I´am already happy that PF3 is taking the AI-traffic into account even the UT-Life which iam using. Couple of years ago, even think about an option like this only, was put into category science-fiction. ;)

RALF9636 wrote: *  Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:54 pm
Everyone who uses MCE and PF3 knows that "cream hood" in this context can only mean "icing on the cake"! :D
:D affirmative
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