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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
Posts: 21
Have to admit the more I experience with PF3 the more I like it!
Also thumbs up for the great support! quick replies even during the weekend are not obvious
I remember the days I used PF2000 with FS9 I guess its time to come back (I've used RC4 in the last 10 years) :D

I have a question about vectoring though - sometimes I feel the vectoring is a bit overwhelming:
For example yesterday when flying KMSY-KIAH route JEPEG GILCO4 I've omitted GILCO last STAR way-point from the airport as I wanted to get vectors (leaving the last way-point DRAPH over 20NM from the airport).
I was cleared to runway 15L approach and instructed to descend to 7,000 however since I wanted an ILS approach I've requested runway 15R.
At this point the controller instructed to maintain 14,000 but I was already descending through 11,000 since the previous clearance was to descend to 7,000. Maybe requesting another runway surfaced some vectoring related bug?
I climbed back to 14,000 and got vectors to fly a downwind west of the airport instead of east (where I was initially approaching runway 15L) - is this expected? Does the program vector you around the airport in case you are approaching a runway which is part of parallel runways?
Second, I was instructed to descend directly from 14,000 to 2,000 (My FAF pre-set altitude). No step descends?
Last general question about downwind - I've noticed the downwind vectoring usually takes you well over 10NM from the airport. Is there a reason for this? In most airports aircraft are vectored ~5NM from the airport.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 487
Please zip your PF3\Logs folder and attach it to your post. This contains the log information from your last flight and is the only way we can see what happened. A quick word about long downwind legs: This is often due to the FAF distance being set too high. You can shorten the downwind by reducing the FAF distance, which controls (approximately) the point to which you are vectored to intercept the runway course. Smaller values bring you in closer to the airport. It's a matter of preference but mine is set at 9 and it works well in most cases so I almost never change it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
Posts: 21
Quote:
Please zip your PF3\Logs folder and attach it to your post. This contains the log information from your last flight and is the only way we can see what happened. A quick word about long downwind legs: This is often due to the FAF distance being set too high. You can shorten the downwind by reducing the FAF distance, which controls (approximately) the point to which you are vectored to intercept the runway course. Smaller values bring you in closer to the airport. It's a matter of preference but mine is set at 9 and it works well in most cases so I almost never change it.
Thanks will send it however I am not sure I have the log option set on (the one says in the interface it should only be checked when requested)
I was referring to the downwind leg distance from the runway (when flying parallel to the runway/airport) not the downwind leg length itself, I have the FAF value set to 7 and indeed have no issues with the length of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:23 am 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 3524
There are no 'set' rules as to vectoring with PF3. It all depends on where you are in relation to the airport, the assigned runway, your heading in relation to the FAF, speed, altitude, aircraft type to name but a few and yes, parallel runways also present their own problems. PF3 uses a set of virtual waypoints to vector you safely to the FAF, these are created on the fly according to the aforementioned criteria.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks and a couple of more questions about STARs (sorry could not find a definitive answer in the manual).
1. Generally when ticking the STAR checkbox, will PF3 provide me altitude & speed restrictions while I'm on my own flying the STAR?
2. What happens after the last STAR way-point? Will PF3 vector me to the FAF or am I on my own? (I'm asking since in real life airliners are usually flying the STAR until the final downwind leg/way-point and they then get vectors based on traffic to intercept the runway course.
3. In the tutorial video 1 provided in the forum - https://youtu.be/B26aXIies3Y?t=773 (mark 12:53) Sebastian sets the last way-point as the start of a STAR although he wants to get vectored from that way-point. Why is that? In recent flight plans I haven't marked the last way-points as the beginning of the STARs and did get vectored eventually.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 487
Quote:
1. Generally when ticking the STAR checkbox, will PF3 provide me altitude & speed restrictions while I'm on my own flying the STAR?
This applies after the last waypoint in your PF3 flight plan. You will get speed calls but not altitude calls. When you are cleared to final at pilot's discretion (at your last PF3 waypoint), you are cleared to descend to FAF altitude but it's up to you to manage the descent. If you are flying a published approach procedure, you should descend according to the altitudes on the chart. You can fly by hand or load the procedure (waypoints and altitudes) in your FMC.

Quote:
2. What happens after the last STAR way-point? Will PF3 vector me to the FAF or am I on my own?
The STARs checkbox controls what happens at the last waypoint of your PF3 flight plan. If the STARs box is unchecked, you will get vectors. If the STARs box is checked, you will not get vectors.

If you are getting vectors and would prefer to take over and complete the approach on your own, press hotkey 1 and you will be cleared at pilot's discretion at that time.

Quote:
3. In the tutorial video 1 provided in the forum - https://youtu.be/B26aXIies3Y?t=773 (mark 12:53) Sebastian sets the last way-point as the start of a STAR although he wants to get vectored from that way-point.
Setting the last waypoint as start-of-STAR may have unexpected results and the vectoring may not work. The start-of-STAR checkboxes are really for use if you want to designate a waypoint other than the last waypoint as the start of your STAR. Important: If you designate a particular waypoint as the start of your STAR, PF3 will still expect you to follow the altitudes as listed on the PF3 waypoint page, so if the chart has specific crossing altitudes for waypoints on the STAR, you should enter those altitudes on the PF3 waypoint page.

See also Dave's response at
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2613#p15771

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
Posts: 21
Quote:
Quote:
Please zip your PF3\Logs folder and attach it to your post. This contains the log information from your last flight and is the only way we can see what happened. A quick word about long downwind legs: This is often due to the FAF distance being set too high. You can shorten the downwind by reducing the FAF distance, which controls (approximately) the point to which you are vectored to intercept the runway course. Smaller values bring you in closer to the airport. It's a matter of preference but mine is set at 9 and it works well in most cases so I almost never change it.
Thanks will send it however I am not sure I have the log option set on (the one says in the interface it should only be checked when requested)
I was referring to the downwind leg distance from the runway (when flying parallel to the runway/airport) not the downwind leg length itself, I have the FAF value set to 7 and indeed have no issues with the length of it.
Please find attached logs


Attachments:
Logs.rar [530.92 KiB]
Downloaded 5 times
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 pm
Posts: 21
Quote:
Have to admit the more I experience with PF3 the more I like it!
Also thumbs up for the great support! quick replies even during the weekend are not obvious
I remember the days I used PF2000 with FS9 I guess its time to come back (I've used RC4 in the last 10 years) :D

I have a question about vectoring though - sometimes I feel the vectoring is a bit overwhelming:
For example yesterday when flying KMSY-KIAH route JEPEG GILCO4 I've omitted GILCO last STAR way-point from the airport as I wanted to get vectors (leaving the last way-point DRAPH over 20NM from the airport).
I was cleared to runway 15L approach and instructed to descend to 7,000 however since I wanted an ILS approach I've requested runway 15R.
At this point the controller instructed to maintain 14,000 but I was already descending through 11,000 since the previous clearance was to descend to 7,000. Maybe requesting another runway surfaced some vectoring related bug?
I climbed back to 14,000 and got vectors to fly a downwind west of the airport instead of east (where I was initially approaching runway 15L) - is this expected? Does the program vector you around the airport in case you are approaching a runway which is part of parallel runways?
Second, I was instructed to descend directly from 14,000 to 2,000 (My FAF pre-set altitude). No step descends?
Last general question about downwind - I've noticed the downwind vectoring usually takes you well over 10NM from the airport. Is there a reason for this? In most airports aircraft are vectored ~5NM from the airport.

Thanks
Did any one check the logs by any chance to see if there is an issue with the vectoring when requesting another runway? Specifically referring to the contradicting altitude requests.


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