OnCourse Software

Welcome to our Product Support Forums
It is currently Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:31 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 922
This same issue is buried somewhere in a thread of a different title (I couldn't locate it).. since it is the one issue I get over and over again, I am posting about it again anyway.

ATC will instruct me to climb to a certain altitude:

"Climb to Flight Level 200"

but then I hear no more. When I realise 'it's that problem again', I check in to ATC, only to hear the pilot say this:

"... out of flight level 200 for flight level 330"

that is then always confirmed by ATC.

No instruction to climb to 33000' had been given (nothing on the onscreen COM log either). If I try to climb to 33000', I am soon told by ATC to maintain flight level 200. I never get an instruction to climb above that (but if I check in again, the same exchange as above is always repeated), so I either stay at that low altitude and mess up my whole VNAV profile (in the FMC) or I just turn PF3 off..

I start my flight in Mode 1 and switch to Mode 2 at or soon after take off. It might be that there is a slight delay in acting on some ATC frequency change instructions occasionally, but I don't think that any reasonable inadvertent delay (and I wasn't aware of any long delays on my part in the current flight - I switched to Mode 2 not that long after takeoff, so any frequency changes should have been automatic) should be allowed to trigger this kind of problem, surely? What happens in the real world if a pilot fails to read back an instruction to change COM frequency? The instruction would be repeated after a short time. In PF3, if there were no reply/confirmation from the pilot to an instruction to change, couldn't there also be a 'nag' after a minute or so (assuming that that is the reason for this error)?

I cut the current flight (as per log attached) short...

Thanks Dave :)

Martin


Attachments:
debug_monitor.zip [457.61 KiB]
Downloaded 3 times
Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 922
Quote:
if there were no reply/confirmation from the pilot to an instruction to change (radio frequency), couldn't there also be a 'nag' after a minute or so
Hello, hello? ;)


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
Posts: 460
The Beta group is currently evaluating some options regarding what should happen if the user does not make contact after a handoff when using CP Mode 0 or 1, but there won't be any changes until the next maintenance release so for the time being if you choose to use Mode 0 or 1 you will need to make sure that you make contact promptly after handoffs. If you are still having problems use Mode 2 for now.

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 922
Thanks Dan. I use Mode 2, but sometimes switch over from Mode 1 (I don't use Mode 2 before takeoff, for the same reasons as below) after take-off a bit late (not usually more than a minute or two).

It would be good to have the option for ATC to 'nag' the pilot after a short time, if there is no confirmation by the pilot to the initial request. That would be realistic...

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)... My two cents worth, anyway,

Martin


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:07 pm
Posts: 133
Quote:
Thanks Dan. I use Mode 2, but sometimes switch over from Mode 1 (I don't use Mode 2 before takeoff, for the same reasons as below) after take-off a bit late (not usually more than a minute or two).

It would be good to have the option for ATC to 'nag' the pilot after a short time, if there is no confirmation by the pilot to the initial request. That would be realistic...

Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)... My two cents worth, anyway,

Martin
Agree, like "Did you copy?" That would be ideal...but...if I'm not wrong about how PF3 works, it would imply that this sentence is recorded and duplicated for all voices. If that is the case, I do not think I will see that option for a long time, if at all...

Let us hope that other solutions can be found.

Regards,

_________________
Richard Portier
MAXIMUS VI FORMULA|Intel® Core™ i7-4770K CPU Oc @ 4.5GHz x8|NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080ti|M16GB|Windows 7 Ultimate 64|Fsx Accel|TrackIr5|Saitek ProFlight Yoke + Quadrant + Rudder Pedal|Thrustmaster Warthog A10|


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 3440
'Did you copy' has already been recorded :D

_________________
Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:27 pm
Posts: 925
Quote:
'Did you copy' has already been recorded :D
But I think "Did you copy" is frowned upon, and it is usually better to repeat the instructions.

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:50 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 3440
Frowning was something people used to do pre-botox :lol:

_________________
Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:33 pm
Posts: 922
Yes, a repetition would be preferable...

Any thoughts on this, or am I the only one who would really like this as an option?
Quote:
Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)...
:P


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:27 pm
Posts: 925
Quote:
Any thoughts on this, or am I the only one who would really like this as an option?
Quote:
Also, talking of modes, it would also be logical (and helpful) for the pilot not to acknowledge the landing runway automatically, even in Mode 2 or 3... I often ask for a change, from say 27L to 27R, as I have my STAR all set up for a particular runway. The pilot confirms whatever ATC says, then has to ask for a runway change immediately afterwards. I do sometimes change the STAR, but it would be nice not to have this one bit of the pilot reply automated in Mode 2 (and better than having to 'cycle' back to Mode 1 before landing instructions are given)...
Sounds like a good idea, but how should the interface look like?
An additional checkbox in options that makes VCP mode 2 not automatically accept runways?
(because usually I would want the VCP to accept the runway in mode 2)

Do you know that you can close runways in PF3's SIDs/STARs page? This will only affect you/PF3, not AI aircraft, so you can close 27L on that airport and PF3 will never give you this runway. You can even distinguish between closing for take-off, landing or both.

_________________
Image


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited