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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:30 am 
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Let me say that over the past several months learning and using PF3, I've found it to be vastly more flexible and superior to the other options I have tried. Perhaps the biggest shortcoming, however, that I have seen is the lack of en-route hand offs/frequency changes when flying within the same Center. For instance, I do a lot of flights between the northeastern USA and Florida, and with the other products I have used (particularly the default ATC and VoxATC), you will encounter several several frequency changes along the way, sometimes every couple of minutes, particularly in this case within Washington and Jacksonville Centers. While I am of course ignorant to the intricacies involved, would it be possible to have PF3 read the default ATC boundaries or use what is provided with fsAeroData, etc.? It seems as though these other products have been able to pull this data in.

Another minor issue is the ATC boundaries don't always follow their real-world boundaries. For instance, I was once flying cross-country from the US west coast to the east coast with a flight plan that clipped Toronto Center near Detroit (I forget the waypoints, but it was something like DXO - KEEHO) and I was never handed off from Cleveland Center.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:59 am 
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Some control centers do have sub-sectors (Atlanta, Toronto, Montreal, London, Amsterdam, Brussels, and others). As far as getting control sector data from other sources, I guess it would be up to Dave to see whether it might be a possibility for future program versions.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:25 am 
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Not a solution for your problem, just some comments:
After loading a flightplan foobar.pln, the directory PF3/Flight/FPP/ will contain a file named foobar.json, which you can view e.g. on http://geojson.io
It contains the sector/center boundaries used in your flight plan, so you can see how they match the real world (or not).

PF3/Data/CenterSectors.dat contains a CSV list of sector/center boundaries. This file is the only source PF3 currently uses. If you change it, make sure to make backups, because subsequent upgrades of PF3 will overwrite it.
Maybe you can adjust it for your region and provide the changes here, so Dave can include them in the next PF3 update?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:18 am 
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It would seem ideal to use information built-in to FSX/P3D as it's already there, but that's not for me to decide. It would be an excellent feature addition (and one I wouldn't mind paying for if I'm being honest).

That said, I may be able to back this into PF3 using exported data from PlanG:

Image

Assuming it is possible to work with this data, it might actually not be too difficult to get it into the CenterSectors.dat file with a good spreadsheet flow and export to CSV. It would be a project, but if done by sector as needed it might not be too bad!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:59 am 
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Speaking of editing CenterSectors.dat, for example:

Amsterdam Center,2,1,133.1,8,11,6,55.83444@3.39861,55.76444@3.36889,55@5,52.91667@3.13333,54.33333@2.75,55.83444@3.39861

What do the following fields represent? (Example above in quotes)

Fifth - "8"
Sixth - "11"
Seventh - "6"

The second appears to be a sequence of different Centers, whereas the third appears to be roughly sequential within each unique Center - correct?

Not sure if it's really worth messing with, but before deciding go or no go I'd at least like to have some idea what I'm doing! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:52 am 
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Quote:
Speaking of editing CenterSectors.dat, for example:

Amsterdam Center,2,1,133.1,8,11,6,55.83444@3.39861,55.76444@3.36889,55@5,52.91667@3.13333,54.33333@2.75,55.83444@3.39861

What do the following fields represent? (Example above in quotes)

Fifth - "8"
Sixth - "11"
Fifth is the region and Sixth the fallback region.

PF3's voice sets are:
Code:
1: Folder A - African - Voices: 6
2: Folder B - Arabian - Voices: 2
3: Folder C - Asian - Voices: 7
4: Folder D - Australian - Voices: 5
5: Folder E - British - Voices: 25
6: Folder F - Canadian - Voices: 3
7: Folder G - Caribbean - Voices: 1
8: Folder H - Dutch - Voices: 4
9: Folder I - French - Voices: 2
10: Folder J - French Canadian - Voices: 0
11: Folder K - German - Voices: 5
12: Folder L - Greek - Voices: 1
13: Folder M - Hindi - Voices: 7
14: Folder N - Hungarian - Voices: 1
15: Folder O - Indonesian - Voices: 0
16: Folder P - Irish - Voices: 2
17: Folder Q - Italian - Voices: 3
18: Folder R - Latin American - Voices: 2
19: Folder S - Nordic - Voices: 0
20: Folder T - Portuguese - Voices: 0
21: Folder U - Russian - Voices: 0
22: Folder V - Spanish - Voices: 1
23: Folder W - US Generic - Voices: 26
24: Folder X - US MidWestern - Voices: 4
25: Folder Y - US Northern - Voices: 7
26: Folder Z - US Southern - Voices: 5
So for Amsterdam Center the controllers would try to use the Dutch voices, but if all voice sets are already in use they would use German voices as a fallback.
Often these values are identical.
Quote:
Seventh - "6"
This is just the number of coordinates that follow.
Quote:
The second appears to be a sequence of different Centers, whereas the third appears to be roughly sequential within each unique Center - correct?
It looks like you are correct.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:42 am 
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Yes, between you and Thomas you have it sussed. Please remember though, you can.t simply add a center and expect PF3 to hand you off to that control by name. If you add a completely new center you would have to set it to 'Control' or 'Center'

The region equates to the voice set used for that area and controller

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Sounds good. I think I'll experiment by subdividing Washington and Jacksonville first and seeing how that works - even if not to the full "resolution" if need be.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:06 am 
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Just to follow up, I've been successful so far in breaking up nearly every ATC center in North America to match the sectors present in the bvcf.bgl located in ..\World\Scenery. I've tried them on several flights with no apparent ill effect. I'd be happy to provide the revisions if there is interest!

It's actually quite simple once you get a process for editing CSVs set up in a spreadsheet; what's been taking me so long is that I've also been plotting everything in CAD so that if I decide to combine or otherwise edit some sectors manually, I can just draw it and dump out the coordinates.

I've also found a handful of significant overlaps by plotting many of the CenterSectors.dat entries in CAD software. Does anybody know how these affect the ATC?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:20 am 
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Quote:
I'd be happy to provide the revisions if there is interest!
[...]
I've also found a handful of significant overlaps by plotting many of the CenterSectors.dat entries in CAD software. Does anybody know how these affect the ATC?
I think (not sure though) that overlapping sectors are no problem, but sometimes there have been gaps between sectors, which cause problems.
I would say your cleanups sound great, and if you could give them to Dave and he includes them in an update this would be good for all PF3 users.

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