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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:50 am
Posts: 25
I've just did a SAEZ-SKBO flight. My flightplan was simplified to SID, another waypoint, and then, all the STAR waypoints. However, I'm seeing since the latest 3.7.1 update, that handoffs are limited to FIRs whose name is available in PF3.

This is my flightplan, generated at SimBrief.com:
SAEZ11 BIVA2A BIVAM DCT SOA W23 ABL ABL3C SKBO13L

According to SimBrief, I should be crossing the following FIRs:

Ezeiza (SAEF)
Córdoba (SACF)
La Paz (SLLF)
Amazônica (SBAZ)
Lima (SPIM)
Bogotá (SKED)

However, I only got handed off from SACF to SKED. I mean, I got positions reported to Córdoba when should be reported to Amazônica or Lima. I don't remember having seen this behavior in previous versions (that's why we were able to see the transition altitude errors reported). Is it there a way to fix this, or at least to go back to 3.6.0?

I'm attaching the FS9 flightplan, FPP folder and logs folder, for reference.


Attachments:
File comment: Logs
SAEZ-SKBO Logs.zip [665.29 KiB]
Downloaded 2 times
File comment: FPP and flightplan
SAEZ-SKBO FPP.zip [9.95 KiB]
Downloaded 2 times
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:37 pm 
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The issue is 'probably' caused by using accelerated sim rate, which we don't support! :(

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Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Posts: 25
Maybe, but I've found 3.7.1 is more susceptible to this than 3.6.0 and 3.5.0 (versions I had since purchase). I mean, despite having no turns at the SID endpoint, sometimes PF3 thinks I never crossed the SID endpoint despite having flown 700 NM further. I've already disabled airway deviation nags. How can I go back to 3.6.0?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 pm
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This is why we don't support accelerated FS time because it's very hit and miss and all depends on when you start/stop it

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Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:50 am
Posts: 25
I understand, but somehow, the function that detects that a waypoint has been crossed has got more strict requirements when PF3 was updated to 3.7.0/3.7.1. Yesterday I saw something similar with a SKBO-SKCG, where, after the last STAR waypoint, was a 160° left turn. Even at 1x sim rate, PF3 never understood I finished the STAR.

At this state, PF3 is almost useless for me, since it does not suit my cruise flying style as previous versions did. I insist: is it there a way to go back to 3.6.0? I prefer to have Scandinavian airspace with altimeter in inHg than this...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:28 am 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 950
Location: LIMZ
Quote:
I understand, but somehow, the function that detects that a waypoint has been crossed has got more strict requirements when PF3 was updated to 3.7.0/3.7.1. Yesterday I saw something similar with a SKBO-SKCG, where, after the last STAR waypoint, was a 160° left turn. Even at 1x sim rate, PF3 never understood I finished the STAR.

At this state, PF3 is almost useless for me, since it does not suit my cruise flying style as previous versions did. I insist: is it there a way to go back to 3.6.0? I prefer to have Scandinavian airspace with altimeter in inHg than this...
Dave can certainly look at Scandinavian airspace. This is a legacy problem that only comes up when users report it. And, it will usually be corrected in the following release. As for 3.6.0 no, it is not available.

I'm afraid your problem is your flightplan not PF3.

Attach your logs in zip form including the FPP directory within the Flight directory. We'll have a look at your fpl and recommend any changes needed. As I said that is where your problem lies.
Quote:
At this state, PF3 is almost useless for me, since it does not suit my cruise flying style
If you don't want to interact with an ATC add-on i.e. fly your own way/style that's fine. But if you "do" want to use an ATC add-on you must also accept that ATC instructions have to be followed. This also includes creating a decent flightplan. Flightplanning certainly is a bit of a black art. PF3 follows what you tell it to do. Remember the old computer programming maxim "Rubbish in, rubbish out." Meaning don't expect correct results if the initial information is incorrect. As Dave has said if you are using accelerated time then don't expect good results. Also if you are using any kind of inertial navigation on your a/c they also don't perform correctly in accelerated time.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:50 am
Posts: 25
Quote:
If you don't want to interact with an ATC add-on i.e. fly your own way/style that's fine. But if you "do" want to use an ATC add-on you must also accept that ATC instructions have to be followed. This also includes creating a decent flightplan.
Thanks for your comprehensive reply, Volo. Somehow, looks like I was misread; sorry for not being clear. I usually generate my flight plans as follows:
- Get in SimBrief a route, with SID and STAR
- Remove the SID and just leave its exit point. Sometimes (specially for terrain-constrained airports like SKBO, SKMD and VHHX) I don't remove the SID.
- Remove the STAR and just leave its entry point. Same as above.
- If there is oceanic or Siberian airspace, remove all but the oceanic entry/exit points, the point before entry and the point after exit. If no oceanic/Siberian airspace, I remove all waypoints between SID and STAR.

Thus, the majority of my flightplans have only 4 waypoints: departure airport, SID exit point, START entry point, arrival airport (intercontinental flightplans would be having 8). This approach to flight planning may not be realistic, but helps me a lot during accelerated cruise (the effect of time acceleration on LNAV and VNAV is minimized this way), specially with aircraft such as the iFly 744 (the one I have seen the most sensitive to time acceleration). With PF3, this is how I fly the flight plan:

- For departure and arrival, I just let PF3 issue me vectors and I follow them. Actually this is where I see PF3's greatest value. No issues here, except for the one I reported for SKBO-SKCG.
- Climb after resuming own navigation: depending on mood and aircraft, I climb at 1x or 4x.
- For cruise, I understand there are only handoffs. Since it's usually a straight, horizontal line, I enter either 8x or 16x. This is what I actually meant when I said "my cruise flying syle". Here is the issue: until version 3.6.0, PF3 rarely requested me to check position and almost always handed me off where it should do so. After 3.7.1, I'm requesting Direct to the next non-XXX waypoint almost every flight, because almost every flight I'm requested to check position when I'm actually on course.
- After TOD I'm back to 1x (sometimes 4x, depending on mood). Usually by then I'm cleared to descend at my discretion. No issue here.

Hope things are now clear.
Quote:
I'm afraid your problem is your flightplan not PF3.

Attach your logs in zip form including the FPP directory within the Flight directory.
Maybe this is true. For the SAEZ-SKBO flight, the FP is attached to the first post. For the SKBO-SKCG flight I mentioned after, please see it attached. It's not build as described above, but just downloaded from SimBrief. Part of the issue may lie there also...


Attachments:
SKBO-SKCG.zip [651 Bytes]
Downloaded 3 times
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 950
Location: LIMZ
I use http://onlineflightplanner.org/ for my fpls.
Also I check them against Skyvector. Most of the plight planning :-) software i.e "not" used professionally, is prone to numerous errors due to the very basic algorithms they use. It's almost impossible to fly a route that does not use airways start to finish. They don't allow you to fly "direct to" for example. So one should regard a generated fpl even those of PFPX with some suspicion. They are rarely pukka. The other thing one has to do is to check the wypts at the start and finish for any height or speed restrictions. As they must be taken into account. Don't regard any generated fpl as the "finished article."

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