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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 1115
Hi Dave,
just thinking out loud here, I was on final approach to EGLL and was told by controller to reduce speed to 140Kts,my gross weight was over 350000lbs with 48k lbs fuel onboard (testing new profile hence the weight) obviously dropping to that speed created a stall (that also was my fault as I had set it to 140Kts in profile so I take full responsibility for that :oops: ).
If we get a call to reduce speed to xxx Kts and it's too low for our weight can we deny call from ATC so it doesn't nag to reduce speed,maybe a popup saying accept or deny so we can stay at sensible and safe speed incase the user forgets to change it in profile, a sort of override system,

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:07 pm
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+1 8-)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:27 pm
Posts: 850
I would not like to see such a popup (and I assume this would be like the messages you get when requesting a different runway or warp to a waypoint), but something that is simply done by (existing) hotkeys would be fine.

One possibility would be to allow the "N,Negative answer (No)" hotkey in this situation (and maybe later other situations) to say "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.". This would probably need the VCP below mode #2, because a Readback followed by Negative sounds strange.

Is requesting different altitudes still important (or even possible) at this point of approach? So maybe the request higher/lower altitude keys can be interpreted as request higher/lower speed at this point? (e.g. H5 to add 50 kts to your 190, so you still get speed restrictions, but you can adjust them)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:33 am 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 955
Location: LIMZ
Quote:
Hi Dave,
just thinking out loud here, I was on final approach to EGLL and was told by controller to reduce speed to 140Kts,my gross weight was over 350000lbs with 48k lbs fuel onboard (testing new profile hence the weight) obviously dropping to that speed created a stall (that also was my fault as I had set it to 140Kts in profile so I take full responsibility for that :oops: ).
If we get a call to reduce speed to xxx Kts and it's too low for our weight can we deny call from ATC so it doesn't nag to reduce speed,maybe a popup saying accept or deny so we can stay at sensible and safe speed incase the user forgets to change it in profile, a sort of override system,
Dave,
What have you got set-up in your aircraft preset? For the 787 you should have 160 IAS as your approach speed. If you know your a/c is going to be at max landing weight then up that to 170. PF3 should not then ask you to reduce your speed any lower than either of these set speeds. Remember your approach speed is "not" your screen speed. You reduce from 160/170 at about 6DME from the threshold to your you screen speed which is dependant on your weight and crosswind component.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:29 pm
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Quote:

One possibility would be to allow the "N,Negative answer (No)" hotkey in this situation (and maybe later other situations) to say "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.". This would probably need the VCP below mode #2, because a Readback followed by Negative sounds strange.
I like the idea of using N (egative) as a general "unable" reply. For speed and altitude commands it could mean that there won't be any nagging any more - or a clearance to maintain the current altitude resp. speed, for vectors it could be followed by a clearance to final at pilot's discretion.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:29 am 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 955
Location: LIMZ
Quote:
Quote:

One possibility would be to allow the "N,Negative answer (No)" hotkey in this situation (and maybe later other situations) to say "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.". This would probably need the VCP below mode #2, because a Readback followed by Negative sounds strange.
I like the idea of using N (egative) as a general "unable" reply. For speed and altitude commands it could mean that there won't be any nagging any more - or a clearance to maintain the current altitude resp. speed, for vectors it could be followed by a clearance to final at pilot's discretion.
Perhaps "U" could be added to the hotkey list as the call "Unable" exists. But from the point of view of PF3 giving final approach speeds it won't go below what you enter into the a/c preset. For all jet transports except Concorde enter 160kts unless you are going to land at max auw. In which case enter 170. For Concorde enter 190. If you are a "heavy" slow down from 160kts to your screen speed at 6DME from the threshold. Otherwise slow down from 4DME. Your screen speed is your Vat. Which you calculate from the aircraft weight and any crosswind component. Vat+5 for normal landings.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 8:27 pm
Posts: 1115
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Dave,
just thinking out loud here, I was on final approach to EGLL and was told by controller to reduce speed to 140Kts,my gross weight was over 350000lbs with 48k lbs fuel onboard (testing new profile hence the weight) obviously dropping to that speed created a stall (that also was my fault as I had set it to 140Kts in profile so I take full responsibility for that :oops: ).
If we get a call to reduce speed to xxx Kts and it's too low for our weight can we deny call from ATC so it doesn't nag to reduce speed,maybe a popup saying accept or deny so we can stay at sensible and safe speed incase the user forgets to change it in profile, a sort of override system,
Dave,
What have you got set-up in your aircraft preset? For the 787 you should have 160 IAS as your approach speed. If you know your a/c is going to be at max landing weight then up that to 170. PF3 should not then ask you to reduce your speed any lower than either of these set speeds. Remember your approach speed is "not" your screen speed. You reduce from 160/170 at about 6DME from the threshold to your you screen speed which is dependant on your weight and crosswind component.
Sorted..i was also using ASN,should have just done a std flight to begin with and no weather,did another and it went flawless, changed profile to read 170kts approach speed :D

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:42 pm
Posts: 325
I know what it should be anyway for each aircraft whether it be for faster jets and slower prop 'planes and I can't be bothered to keep getting nagged for different approach speeds, so I've simply turned off the final approach speed control!

Saves a lot of messing about. :)

John


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 955
Location: LIMZ
Quote:
I know what it should be anyway for each aircraft whether it be for faster jets and slower prop 'planes and I can't be bothered to keep getting nagged for different approach speeds, so I've simply turned off the final approach speed control!

Saves a lot of messing about. :)

John
PF3 is very flexible in that respect. You probably would not be given speed reductions if you were flying into a quiet airport and therefore the only one on approach. But for busy airports you would expect it. Even so I wouldn't call it "messing about!" I would call it realism.

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