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Not another wind/runway issue!

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Rustydog
Post subject: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:25 pm
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Location: Northamptonshire
 
I wonder if the attached logs might be of any use in the ever present runway selection hiccups. Most of the time things are fine but at times........well......hmmmm!
Tonights flight from Aberdeen to Manchester PMDG 738 was interesting. Aberdeen weather set by AS16 winds around 130hdg. Ai took off from runway 16 while I was getting ready. Approx 20mins later ATIS report same winds and runway 16 in use. Great. I push back and am told to taxi to 34. Typical I thought winds changed. I check winds and they are still around 130 degrees. Hmm strange. Never mind off we go to 34. Get cleared to enter runway and lo and behold Ai landing from other end. 16. Once airborne I check aircraft gauge and winds show around 140 degrees. I dial in to Aberdeen ATIS again to check and it tells me winds are 131. With runway 5L in use. There isn't one! but Manchester has got a 5L with winds at 120 degrees maybe some confusion. So winds didn't change and ai using 16 and ATIS agreed but still sent to 34. I always start AS16 before FSX SE and have auto update set to 5mins. Prep usually takes around 25mins so things should be stable by then. Anyway arrived safely and am typing this while dining out at an indian in Manchester.lol.
By the way ignore speed calls during descent Dave already knows about that. It really winds them up when you ignore them cus you are late for your indian.
Happy flying all and roll on tomorrow night. Manchester to Exeter.
Kind regards Steve.

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:48 am
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Initially tuned to ATIS resulted in the following and as you can see AI was detected using 16...
Quote:
22/08/2017 19:24:06: 730 - ATIS Weather retrieved for EGPD using the ICAO
22/08/2017 19:24:07: 420 - #1 Initial sweep shows AI using runway 16-0
22/08/2017 19:24:07: 420 - ATIS Active Runway determined by AI Traffic at EGPD
Then you requested Clearance but no AI detected this time so we used wind direction and confirmed 16...
Quote:
22/08/2017 19:30:51: 160 - FS Screen : Clearance Ryanair 24 at gate 7 IFR to Echo Golf Charlie Charlie with information Sierra
22/08/2017 19:31:00: 910 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
22/08/2017 19:31:00: 910 - Extracting Weather Data from EGPD
22/08/2017 19:31:01: 430 - Visibility from weather station: 2
22/08/2017 19:31:01: 430 - Wind DIR from weather station : 131
22/08/2017 19:31:01: 430 - Long Rwy = 5001
22/08/2017 19:31:01: 430 - Selecting runway (VFR/IFR=1)
22/08/2017 19:31:01: 430 - Active Runway is set to 16
Now the interesting bit... your request taxi and the check reveals the following!
Quote:
22/08/2017 19:36:05: 360 - Transcript: 'Ground Ryanair 24 Ready to taxi. '
22/08/2017 19:36:05: 360 - FS Screen : Ground Ryanair 24 Ready to taxi.
22/08/2017 19:36:13: 020 - #1 Initial sweep shows AI using runway 34-0
22/08/2017 19:36:13: 020 - Runway 34 0 is being used by AI Traffic! #A
22/08/2017 19:36:13: 020 - Active Runway is set to 34
So, at that particular moment AI was using 34... go figure... nothing much we can do about that I'm afraid!

And now the only BUG I can see is this, when you tuned to EGPD ATIS mid-flight...
Quote:
22/08/2017 19:57:23: 640 - ATIS Weather retrieved for EGPD using the ICAO
22/08/2017 19:57:23: 860 - No active AI at EGPD - Checking wind direction for runway-in-use!
22/08/2017 19:57:23: 860 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
22/08/2017 19:57:23: 860 - Extracting Weather Data from EGCC
So the first sweep finds no AI assigned a runway to EGPD but then, instead of using wind direction (as it states in the log) it goes on to check ATIS for your departure airport, which of course is incorrect and a bug. I obviously need to look deeper into this one and the fix will be in the next release.

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Rustydog
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:24 am
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Location: Northamptonshire
 
Thanks for looking into this Dave and the explanation. Very interesting that 34 got assigned as active at the most inopportune moment. Especially as no ai took off or landed at that time. But hey we like life to be interesting. Thanks again. Regards Steve.

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:13 pm
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Hi Stev

Well remember, just because an AI aircraft is assigned a particular runway doesn't mean to say you will actually see it land or takeoff... it could be many miles from the airport on course to land. I wouldn't even pretend to know what FS is doing with regard AI traffic but we are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, as they say. If we only used wind direction we 'should' always get the correct runway, but then what is the correct runway? Is it the one best suited to takeoff/landing due to wind direction or the one currently being used or having been assigned to AI?

As for the bug mentioned in my original post, I've found the culprit and the fix will be in the next release

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:21 pm
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Location: LIMZ
 
Just a thought as to why there might have been a rwy change. First what is your weather engine? Does it have a refresh AI setting? The sim will always start-up with the default rwy headings which is then changed by the weather engine. It's possible you had some AI flying the default settings and then when your weather engine kicked in the rwy was set correctly.

I always open the weather engine first then the sim, check that the a/c instruments are reading the correct wind and QNH. And only then open PF3. It does seem to work in getting everyone to sing from the same hymn sheet. However, you will always be at risk from the dreaded crosswinds.

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Nam1394
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:01 pm
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Rustydog wrote: *  Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:25 pm
I wonder if the attached logs might be of any use in the ever present runway selection hiccups. Most of the time things are fine but at times........well......hmmmm!
Tonights flight from Aberdeen to Manchester PMDG 738 was interesting. Aberdeen weather set by AS16 winds around 130hdg. Ai took off from runway 16 while I was getting ready. Approx 20mins later ATIS report same winds and runway 16 in use. Great. I push back and am told to taxi to 34. Typical I thought winds changed. I check winds and they are still around 130 degrees. Hmm strange. Never mind off we go to 34. Get cleared to enter runway and lo and behold Ai landing from other end. 16. Once airborne I check aircraft gauge and winds show around 140 degrees. I dial in to Aberdeen ATIS again to check and it tells me winds are 131. With runway 5L in use. There isn't one! but Manchester has got a 5L with winds at 120 degrees maybe some confusion. So winds didn't change and ai using 16 and ATIS agreed but still sent to 34. I always start AS16 before FSX SE and have auto update set to 5mins. Prep usually takes around 25mins so things should be stable by then. Anyway arrived safely and am typing this while dining out at an indian in Manchester.lol.
By the way ignore speed calls during descent Dave already knows about that. It really winds them up when you ignore them cus you are late for your indian.
Happy flying all and roll on tomorrow night. Manchester to Exeter.
Kind regards Steve.
Whenever I use AS16, i always wait for a minute after starting the flight, then, I rest time. The reason is, when you start a flight it takes AS16 30 seconds to inject weather. The default ATC will assign an approching AI plane which could be very far away from your departure airport a runway when the winds were calm and then it will assign another AI plane the other end of the runway because the winds have been updated. To avoid this just rest time as i do.

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Dan77
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:27 pm
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Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
 
In my case I get the best results with AI turned completely off (0%) when I start the sim and I don't turn on AI at all until the weather is fully loaded and the instruments indicate the wind is stable from the correct direction. If you have AI on when you start the sim, turn it down to 0% until the weather is fully loaded. As Dave and Nam1394 pointed out, if you have AI turned on before the weather is fully loaded, an inbound AI aircraft many miles away may get "tagged" by FS to land on a specific runway and that assignment will persist so the aircraft will appear to land the wrong way many minutes later. And since in this case the offending AI aircraft was using runway 34, it may have obtained its runway assignment when the sim started with FS default winds. As Vololiberista said, some weather programs have a "refresh AI" button which should wipe out the AI and start afresh after the weather is loaded, but I think it works via FSUIPC and isn't always reliable. Keeping the AI turned off until the winds are correctly loaded is the safest way to avoid problems.

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Rustydog
Post subject: Re: Not another wind/runway issue!
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:02 pm
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Posts: 142
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 5:52 pm
Location: Northamptonshire
 
Thanks all for the helpful advice and explanations. I can see now how PF3 can be out foxed. Assuming FSX sets initial wind to 000 or 360 while loading weather Ai could easily be assigned Rwy 34 and if far out then yes anomolies would seem to appear. Knowing this helps a lot in planning and the suggestion to start with Ai off is a good idea and will be adopted from tonight. Happy flying all, kindest regards Steve

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