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Weird approaches.

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bobsk8
Post subject: Weird approaches.
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:31 pm
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I took 2 flights today, and both times I had approaches that were terrible. The first flight into KTYQ, I was given an altitude to descend to of 1,000-1500 ( can't remember exactly) feet probably at least 15 miles from the airport and the airport is at 1,000 feet. The settings I have for approach distance and altitude is 9 miles and 2000 feet.

The second flight, a return from KTYQ back to Dayton, I was given at least 6 runway changes from approach, about 1 minute apart at most. As soon as I would dial in the freq or set the GPS, the runway and heading from approach controller would change again. Finally it put me on the ILS for runway 6, put me on a heading going away from the airport and at 27 miles from the airport with no further communication from ATC, I had enough , and asked for Vectors. Whenever I asked for vectors, I always get the response, " Not at this time"... I then asked for clearance to fly my own approach, since now I had to fly almost 30 miles back to the airport to land. The strange part is when it started vectoring me and changing runways every minute ( not exaggerating) from 6L to36 to 24 back to 6L,I was almost lined up for a perfect intercept to the 6L ILS about 9 miles from the airport , with zero wind at the airport.

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Dan77
Post subject: Re: Weird approaches.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:56 am
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For your first flight (KDAY-KTYQ), your last waypoint is about 12 nm from the destination field, which may be part of the problem. You likely got a warning when loading the flight plan (the warning is shown when the last waypoint is closer than 15 nm, which is not recommended). You will probably get a better result with a last waypoint that is about 25 nm out, to allow room for vectoring. More info in these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2149

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2181

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bobsk8
Post subject: Re: Weird approaches.
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:34 am
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Dan77 wrote:
For your first flight (KDAY-KTYQ), your last waypoint is about 12 nm from the destination field, which may be part of the problem. You likely got a warning when loading the flight plan (the warning is shown when the last waypoint is closer than 15 nm, which is not recommended). You will probably get a better result with a last waypoint that is about 25 nm out, to allow room for vectoring. More info in these threads:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2149

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2181
I think that checkbox for the warning about close waypoints was checked by default, so I will uncheck it.

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drumsart
Post subject: Re: Weird approaches.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:49 am
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Just in case....Of what use is this option if you must leave it unchecked !? Especially as I remember have read somewhere in the forum or in the Pf3 manual that it did not matter to leave it checked !

Thanks and Regards,

Richard Portier

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Dan77
Post subject: Re: Weird approaches.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:34 am
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Posts: 766
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:22 am
 
bobsk8 wrote:
The second flight, a return from KTYQ back to Dayton, I was given at least 6 runway changes from approach, about 1 minute apart at most.
In looking at the logs, the runway changes were due to frequent and repeated wind shifts at your destination airport. These caused PF3 to assign first 6 left, then 36, then 24 left, then 36.
Quote:
9/11/2016 5:41:37 PM: 470 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:41:37 PM: 470 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 010 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 010 - Wind DIR from weather station : 100
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 020 - Active Runway is set to 6 - Left

9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 200 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 6 1
9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 740 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 740 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Wind DIR from weather station : 322
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Active Runway is set to 36

9/11/2016 5:44:59 PM: 620 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 36 0
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 180 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 180 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Wind DIR from weather station : 217
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Active Runway is set to 24 - Left

9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 110 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 24 1
9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 740 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 740 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Wind DIR from weather station : 26
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Active Runway is set to 36
This probably is related to settings in your weather add-on. Other users (search the forum) have been able to resolve this by using a wind-lock setting or adjusting their weather settings to limit wind shifts when the aircraft is within a specified distance from the airport.

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bobsk8
Post subject: Re: Weird approaches.
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:42 am
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Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:44 pm
 
Dan77 wrote:
bobsk8 wrote:
The second flight, a return from KTYQ back to Dayton, I was given at least 6 runway changes from approach, about 1 minute apart at most.
In looking at the logs, the runway changes were due to frequent and repeated wind shifts at your destination airport. These caused PF3 to assign first 6 left, then 36, then 24 left, then 36.
Quote:
9/11/2016 5:41:37 PM: 470 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:41:37 PM: 470 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 010 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 010 - Wind DIR from weather station : 100
9/11/2016 5:41:38 PM: 020 - Active Runway is set to 6 - Left

9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 200 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 6 1
9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 740 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:42:39 PM: 740 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Wind DIR from weather station : 322
9/11/2016 5:42:40 PM: 270 - Active Runway is set to 36

9/11/2016 5:44:59 PM: 620 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 36 0
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 180 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 180 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Wind DIR from weather station : 217
9/11/2016 5:45:00 PM: 730 - Active Runway is set to 24 - Left

9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 110 - Recheck active runway, WAS: 24 1
9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 740 - Active Runway determined by PF (Wind) selection
9/11/2016 5:46:01 PM: 740 - Extracting Weather Data from KDAY
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Visibility from weather station: 32
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Wind DIR from weather station : 26
9/11/2016 5:46:02 PM: 320 - Active Runway is set to 36
This probably is related to settings in your weather add-on. Other users (search the forum) have been able to resolve this by using a wind-lock setting or adjusting their weather settings to limit wind shifts when the aircraft is within a specified distance from the airport.
OK, That explains that issue... Thanks. I have Active Sky Next , I will change that setting, in fact there are actually 2 settings in AS 16 that have an effect on approaches, the wind lock that you mentioned and no weather changes when near the destination airport. .

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