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possibly noob issues

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krazyj
Post subject: possibly noob issues
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:05 pm
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Hey Guys,


I hope you can help me with my issues. so far I have only committed to the demo. but Im hoping to get these issues sorted so I can get going :) and ive read the manual several times over.

here goes..

1. I have been unable to get vectors to the approach on both a VFR and IFR flight plan. This may be due to not knowing how to set it up correctly.

It left me hanging at the final waypoint on my flight plan and didnt give me any vectors like normal ATC would. but this may be due to not knowing how to set it up properly.

2. I feel the handover from various atc is sporadic and not in an organized matter. I.e. I flew half way across Denmark on an IFR plan before being sent to Copenhagen control. Which then in turn failed to send me to approach as I approached ekch.

the same goes for my flight from EGKK to EGCC I seem to be very close to the airport before being handed to approach, and when departing ekbi I was half way across the country before being handed over to EKCH.

PF3 is the most promising ATC sw I have yet to experience, and Ive tried them all :((

thank you for your assistance.


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:39 pm
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Posts: 980
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
krazyj wrote:
Hey Guys,


I hope you can help me with my issues. so far I have only committed to the demo. but Im hoping to get these issues sorted so I can get going :) and ive read the manual several times over.

here goes..

1. I have been unable to get vectors to the approach on both a VFR and IFR flight plan. This may be due to not knowing how to set it up correctly.

It left me hanging at the final waypoint on my flight plan and didnt give me any vectors like normal ATC would. but this may be due to not knowing how to set it up properly.

2. I feel the handover from various atc is sporadic and not in an organized matter. I.e. I flew half way across Denmark on an IFR plan before being sent to Copenhagen control. Which then in turn failed to send me to approach as I approached ekch.

the same goes for my flight from EGKK to EGCC I seem to be very close to the airport before being handed to approach, and when departing ekbi I was half way across the country before being handed over to EKCH.

PF3 is the most promising ATC sw I have yet to experience, and Ive tried them all :((

thank you for your assistance.
The only way for anyone to check whether it is you or a bug is to see the logs. Please rerun your flight exactly and if the issue persists attach a zip file of all your logs to your next post.

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krazyj
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:08 pm
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Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:52 pm
 
Ive attached the logs from yesterdays flight

Attachments
Logs.rar
log files from yesterday
(396.02 KiB) Downloaded 178 times


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:21 am
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Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm
 
Just taking a short look at your last flight and my main suggestion is: You should make it easier for yourself until you are more familiar with PF3:
- Select a distinct callsign at first ... Sky Express 334, Sky Express 344, Sky Express 316, Sky Express 386, Sky Express 224, Sky Express 495, Sky Express 8403 ... at least I was confused
- Try using VCP mode 2 first, so you see what PF3 expects from you. And later run PF3_Displayer, so you see which hotkey sends what with the current ATC contact.
- You missed the first waypoint by 3.5 miles, but PF3 switched to the next waypoint as you got nearer to the second waypoint, so no problem here, but for your first tries you might want to disable SIDs (and not include them in your flight plan) so you get vectoring during departure.
- You did not get vectoring at the last waypoint because you were using a STAR, which basically says: I want to fly my approach, PF3 should not interfere with it:
Sky Express 334 at Delta Alpha Yankee November Echo Descend to 3 thousand 5 hundred   Cleared to final for Sierra Tango Approach runway 6 Left at pilot's discretion Contact Tower on 118.62  when established.
There is the possibility to mark waypoints as start and end of the STAR, then you will get vectors from the end of the STAR to the FAF, but I really suggest keeping that for later.
- When in contact with departure or approach, "request vectors" does not work (you received "unable at this time"). They will give you vectors (unless this is disabled by SID or STAR) on their own.
- You ignored multiple speed calls and e.g. stayed at 150 when approach instructed you to reduce to 120.
- After the runway change the STAR was disabled and PF3 gave you vectors, so you already see that it works, but since your last waypoint was too close to the airport (and you were too fast and you turned in the wrong direction at first), PF3 needed to vector you away from the airport to catch the FAF in a useful heading. At 11 miles from the airport it seems you had given up waiting on further vectors and turned on your own. PF3 did not complain here (this is a known bug Dave is looking into), but explains why you did not get further turning instructions. A real-world explanation could have been "he isn't following our instructions, so we vector anyone else away, let him do what he wants and call the authorities" :)

In this situation it might have been appropriate to declare an emergency due to pilot and ATC confusion :)

Regarding the handovers:
- The Denmark/Copenhagen control was not in the flight for which you uploaded logs, so I can't comment on that. But you can check the handover points after loading the flight plan in PF3. The directory PF3/Flight/FPP/ will then contain a file named "(yourflightplanname).json", which you can upload at http://geojson.io/ to see center boundaries, waypoints and "X" markers for the handover waypoints.
- Handover to Approach will be better if do not include the STAR waypoints in your flight plan (and later: if you include them, declare to PF3 which waypoints are part of the STAR)

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:07 am
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With regard to STARs I think you deserve one for that very informative reply Thomas. :D Thank you. ;)

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I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
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krazyj
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:15 am
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Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:52 pm
 
As I said expected noob problems, I do however wonder about a couple of items

1. What is the ST approach, and I've had a couple of cleared to runway 0 as well ??
2. I use PFPX to compile my flight plans which obviously include the expected SID and STAR, so where would I add them then ?

I do realize it's a new major update but some how to for noobs like me would be great.

While the 199 page manual is a good description of the systems it doesn't give much as in how to set it up and go flying. But I'd imagine that's coming ?

I appreciate any help and guidance I can and I will give your ideas a whack tonight.

Thanks for now :-)


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:30 pm
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Posts: 988
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krazyj wrote:
1. What is the ST approach, and I've had a couple of cleared to runway 0 as well ??
The "ST approach" is the generic name for "the STAR that you want". You have the option to configure names for the various STARs (PF3 does not read AIRAC information by itself), but you don't need to, in which case PF3 just says "Sierra Tango" (ST).

Regarding the "runway 0": Logs or it did not happen :)
Might be like a bug in PF3, but maybe you just need to rebuild the PF3 database to account for scenery you have installed?
krazyj wrote:
2. I use PFPX to compile my flight plans which obviously include the expected SID and STAR, so where would I add them then ?
I use PFPX, too. It can save routes without including SIDs and STARs just fine. Alternatively open the .pln files with something else that can edit them (e.g. FSX ... or just a regular text editor) and remove the unwanted waypoints.
For telling PF3 about these waypoints (if you keep them in your flight plan), see my next answer:
krazyj wrote:
I do realize it's a new major update but some how to for noobs like me would be great.

While the 199 page manual is a good description of the systems it doesn't give much as in how to set it up and go flying. But I'd imagine that's coming ?
For your question regarding SIDs and STARs, see 7.1.26 and 7.1.15 of the 166 page user guide. (if you have 199 pages, you have the wrong manual :))
Many of the old tutorials from PFE are still valid with PF3, e.g. SID and STAR handling hasn't changed that much, so you could search youtube for "pfe sid star" to find https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qi6bZ5jVA0

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: possibly noob issues
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:39 pm
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Posts: 980
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
krazyj wrote:
As I said expected noob problems, I do however wonder about a couple of items

1. What is the ST approach, and I've had a couple of cleared to runway 0 as well ??
2. I use PFPX to compile my flight plans which obviously include the expected SID and STAR, so where would I add them then ?

I do realize it's a new major update but some how to for noobs like me would be great.

While the 199 page manual is a good description of the systems it doesn't give much as in how to set it up and go flying. But I'd imagine that's coming ?

I appreciate any help and guidance I can and I will give your ideas a whack tonight.

Thanks for now :-)
1. If you continue to get a RWY 0 you need to run makerwys.exe and then update PF3. Save and restart PF3.
2. Compared to PFE you can now in PF3 give it an entire flightplan inclusive of SIDS and STARs. But in addition you need to do two things. First create a SID STAR page for each airport and enter the relevant SID STAR names. Also on the same pages enter the correct FAF and Map altitudes. Second, on the waypoint adjustment page enter DP where you expect you SID to end. This will be the wypt that you expect to achieve the SID altitude unless there is a constraint all the way to the end of the SID. And then enter ST where your STAR starts.
While the 199 page manual is a good description of the systems it doesn't give much as in how to set it up and go flying. But I'd imagine that's coming ? You got to page 199 obviously without having read page 126 onwards :lol: It is explained in detail with different flightplans.
All three flightplans discussed in the Hints and Tips of the user guide are on YT. So you can see them being flown (not planned).
LIMZ to LIMF
ZJSY to VHHX(Kai Tak) pt 1
LIPZ to LOWI (Innsbruck)pt 1

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