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Chosen Runway for takeoff

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benjoglove
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:50 pm
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benjoglove wrote:
mach2000 wrote:
I had the same issue yesterday on a flight out of KIAH. The winds were out of the south (190/8 if I remember correctly), the ATIS advertised runway 15L in use and all the AI traffic appeared to be going to 15L; but when I called ground, I was told to taxi to runway 33R :shock:

The zipped logs are attached. I also had issues when contacting ground at my destination (KLBB)... I never heard any taxi instructions from ground; but the pilot read back instructions as if they had been issued.
Mach2000 so you had AI traffic talking to ATC (PF3) before requesting clearance and got Rwy different to AI. I only get it when I havent waited for the AI to fire up and then I get in que and they give me the same runway as AI.

I have posted another topic re the ground issue and PF3 dying once landed. I dont even get pilot read back so thats interesting. Maybe post that section in my other post so we keep it seperate? Here is the link to the post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1936
Can someone please please have a good look re the ground atc issue. This is interesting that its been raised by someone else and not just me with a sightly different result. This issue is really bugging after a good flight and pf3 dies for a better word. Is it a bug or a setting issue?


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:09 pm
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benjoglove wrote:
benjoglove wrote:
mach2000 wrote:
I had the same issue yesterday on a flight out of KIAH. The winds were out of the south (190/8 if I remember correctly), the ATIS advertised runway 15L in use and all the AI traffic appeared to be going to 15L; but when I called ground, I was told to taxi to runway 33R :shock:

The zipped logs are attached. I also had issues when contacting ground at my destination (KLBB)... I never heard any taxi instructions from ground; but the pilot read back instructions as if they had been issued.
Mach2000 so you had AI traffic talking to ATC (PF3) before requesting clearance and got Rwy different to AI. I only get it when I havent waited for the AI to fire up and then I get in que and they give me the same runway as AI.

I have posted another topic re the ground issue and PF3 dying once landed. I dont even get pilot read back so thats interesting. Maybe post that section in my other post so we keep it seperate? Here is the link to the post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1936
Can someone please please have a good look re the ground atc issue. This is interesting that its been raised by someone else and not just me with a sightly different result. This issue is really bugging after a good flight and pf3 dies for a better word. Is it a bug or a setting issue?
Well I've just check through your logs and really can't see any problem. You made contact with Ground control and receive taxi instructions. Or am I missing the point? :o

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:17 pm
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dmarch wrote:
Well I've just check through your logs and really can't see any problem. You made contact with Ground control and receive taxi instructions. Or am I missing the point? :o
He did not receive instructions, but just read them back:
3/15/2016 8:29:59 PM: 750 - Transcript: 'Acey 4054 exit Left next available taxiway Contact Ground on 121.9 when clear of the active  '
3/15/2016 8:30:13 PM: 850 - Transcript: 'Acey 4054 Good day  '
3/15/2016 8:30:43 PM: 590 - Transcript: 'Ground Acey 4054 Clear of the active runway  '
3/15/2016 8:30:49 PM: 620 - Transcript: 'Acey 4054 hold your position  '
3/15/2016 8:31:03 PM: 640 - Transcript: 'Acey 4054 Good day  '
3/15/2016 8:31:12 PM: 600 - Transcript: 'Roger. Taxi to parking number 22 using taxiway November   Mike   Sierra    '
I guess the second "Good day" indicates the problem here: "hold your position" does not need a Roger/Readback (similar to "stand by"), and the extra Roger seems to have confused PF3.

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benjoglove
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:25 pm
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Quote:
Well I've just check through your logs and really can't see any problem. You made contact with Ground control and receive taxi instructions. Or am I missing the point? :o
[/quote][/quote]


Dmarch as per my other topic (link in a few posts up) im not even contact by ground to exit runway nor am i getting taxi instructions. 3 flights and same result.Here is the link to the topic:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1936


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mach2000
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:41 am
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dmarch wrote:
Well at that precise moment I can assure you PF3 detected an AI aircraft using 33R. We don't actually look to see where an aircraft is or which way it is facing, we simply use the AI data table provided by FSUIPC and this shows the actual runway assigned to each aircraft. When PF3 first checked (when you selected ATIS) 15L was detected.

I can't explain why this should happen, all we can do is use the information available to us at the time
Fair Enough. AI Traffic can be unpredictable. Although I do everything I can to keep it behaving (Start ASN prior to starting the flight, use ATC wind lock, wait at least 10 minutes prior to taxi, etc.), the AI is occasionally going to do some odd things beyond anyone's control. Hopefully, this will be a rare. Creating some logic to safe-guard from these occurrences is possible: if 15 AI aircraft are going to the same runway and the wind favors that runway, there's a pretty good chance that runway is correct (even if the most recently generated aircraft somehow ends up at the opposite end). But you know your code best and know what can and can't be implemented effectively. For my part, I'll refresh myself on the keystrokes required to request alternate runways.


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mach2000
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:06 am
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ThomasAH wrote:
I guess the second "Good day" indicates the problem here: "hold your position" does not need a Roger/Readback (similar to "stand by"), and the extra Roger seems to have confused PF3.
As Thomas pointed out - no taxi instructions were given, just the readback.

If the "Roger" to the "hold your position" instruction is the cause - that probably needs to be looked at. Why would ProATC not expect a reply? If it's a control instruction, it deserves a readback. Even in situations where a readback is not warranted, an inadvertent press of the "roger" key shouldn't cause ATC to go mute.

I also see the "roger/readback" function being problematic in other areas of the program. ATC occasionally has a tendency to rattle off two or three messages in a row before allowing the reply to be played. Then the "roger" key needs to be pressed multiple times to clear out the "backlog".


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benjoglove
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:32 am
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mach2000 wrote:
ThomasAH wrote:
I guess the second "Good day" indicates the problem here: "hold your position" does not need a Roger/Readback (similar to "stand by"), and the extra Roger seems to have confused PF3.
As Thomas pointed out - no taxi instructions were given, just the readback.

If the "Roger" to the "hold your position" instruction is the cause - that probably needs to be looked at. Why would ProATC not expect a reply? If it's a control instruction, it deserves a readback. Even in situations where a readback is not warranted, an inadvertent press of the "roger" key shouldn't cause ATC to go mute.

I also see the "roger/readback" function being problematic in other areas of the program. ATC occasionally has a tendency to rattle off two or three messages in a row before allowing the reply to be played. Then the "roger" key needs to be pressed multiple times to clear out the "backlog".
Okay I just reversed my flights YPAD - YMML as I thought it maybe YPAD causing the issues. But once again, get clearance, correct descent into YMML. As soon as I land once again silence. No comms from PF3 whatsoever. What is going on? Not worth having the program if this issue isn't fixed. Logs are attached of recent flight.

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benjoglove
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:27 am
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Reading the manual could this have something to do with it?

Pause Mode - this determines the distance from either the FAF, runway or
your destination airport you would like to pause FS/PF3. The first two options
(FAF/Runway) would not become active until you reach the last waypoint in
your flight plan, whereas the last option (Airport) is active for the entire flight.
You might find this useful for those long-haul flights where you might leave
FS on auto-pilot but don't want to risk missing the exciting part of your flight!

This is my current settings. In the other topic it appeared according to my logs that FS paused and appeared PF3 disconnected/couldn't read FSX. Do I change it to airport however if its set on 0 then I believe it shouldnt come active ever? Please note I also extended the FS inactive timeout to its fullest to see if that worked but it didn't.
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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:20 am
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mach2000 wrote:
If the "Roger" to the "hold your position" instruction is the cause - that probably needs to be looked at. Why would ProATC not expect a reply? If it's a control instruction, it deserves a readback. Even in situations where a readback is not warranted, an inadvertent press of the "roger" key shouldn't cause ATC to go mute.

I also see the "roger/readback" function being problematic in other areas of the program. ATC occasionally has a tendency to rattle off two or three messages in a row before allowing the reply to be played. Then the "roger" key needs to be pressed multiple times to clear out the "backlog".
You are right (at least for ICAO, not sure about FAA), and I already filed bug reports for these two situations, so this does not get forgotten.
Currently there is no "readback backlog", so you only need to press the roger key once, even after PF3 gave you multiple instructions (this is a bug and part of my bug report).

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Dan77
Post subject: Re: Chosen Runway for takeoff
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:04 am
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benjoglove wrote:
Reading the manual could this have something to do with it?
Pause Mode - this determines the distance from either the FAF, runway or
your destination airport you would like to pause FS/PF3.
I don't think the pause feature is the cause, and yes, if you have it set to 0 it is off.

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