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A few observations/quirks ..

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martinlest
Post subject: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:03 pm
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Hi, I hope that it's OK to post these like this. I have been flying every day and pretty much all day (ask my family!) since I bought PF3 so the rate at which things come up (and I post them) is quite high (though I want to stress I don't immediately get online - I do experiment, Google, search the pdf manual first! It's not always easy to know what terms to search for though).

The following may be 'features' that I haven't set up correctly, or possibly little bugs. They have all occurred a number of times, so not one-off glitches (which happen all the time with whatever programme): They may be FS9 rather than PF3 issues, I don't know...

1. ATC sometimes asks me to line up and wait, which I do. They then ask the AI a/c behind me to line up and wait too, so, being basically stupid, it taxis right through my fuselage. It then gets zapped with my FSUIPC - serves it right (though I feel a bit sorry for the passengers!). ATC then tells me I am clear for take-off.... The stuff 'Air Crash Investigation' is made of...
2. Sometimes ATC gives me no instructions to turn after T/O and I can go on and on on the runway heading. Once I turn towards my flight path anyway, ATC will start vectoring me correctly. Not a big problem, as pilots do not of course wait to hear from ATC to turn onto the SID, but I just wondered why sometimes I get no instructions at all even after 40 miles! (I do get climb instructions meanwhile, so ATC is still with me).
3. ATC instructions to AI can come too late. They tell the a/c to line up and wait when it is already on the runway and starting its take-off roll. Seen this quite a lot at various airports..

OK, all for now! Many thanks. No rush for a reply, just in the nature of feedback, which as I say, I hope is OK! (If not, do tell me: I feel like I am maybe posting too much stuff here at the moment?)

Martin


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Dan77
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:55 pm
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Hi Martin. A few quick thoughts. Regarding your #2, I assume you have not indicated to PF3 that you are flying a SID, as you will not get vectored after take-off if you do. Have you been given an initial heading (other than runway heading) along with your take-off clearance? If so, ATC expects you to assume that heading once airborne. If you are not flying a SID and are told to fly runway heading and then get no further vectors, post a log when it happens again.

And regarding #3, have a look on page 138 of the manual, in the FAQ section. The second FAQ addresses this issue. I think the delay may vary somewhat depending on your setup and system resources.

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martinlest
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:43 pm
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Hi, actually what I wrote re #2 was confusing. In FS9 I was not flying a SID - I just took off from the airport and continued on the runway heading (in autopilot mode after a while) waiting to be asked to change heading. I simply meant that waiting for ATC to tell you to turn when you have a filed flight plan is not of course what happens in real aviation. I just wondered if this is a 'glitch' in PF3, inb that often it tells me to turn towards my filed flight path, sometimes it never does. Maybe I was given a different heading to fly after take-off, you may well be right, and the fact that I haven't been following that but sticking to the runway heading might be the cause. On the other hand, I have course 'nags' set to one minute, so shouldn't I be reminded after that time if I have not changed course?

Thanks for the reference to the manual for #3, I'll go and look - and I'll read all the FAQ whilst I am there! (Does this have any bearing on my 1st point?). I am sure some of the stuff I ask about IS in the pdf, but the search terms in my pdf reader don't get any hits and in that case, information is not so easy to find in such an exhaustive guide!

Many thanks for the reply.


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:25 pm
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As always: Logs or it did not happen :)

Maybe you were assigned a different heading than runway heading and PF3 waited for you to turn to it?
(of course it should shout at you then for not obeying their instructions, but it seems PF3 is quite lenient at some points)

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:26 pm
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#1 Strange... I've never experienced AI doing that. All AI traffic is of course handled by FS not PF3

#2 You won't get any headings from ATC if (a) you are flying a SID or (b) you haven't turned onto the initial heading given to you by Tower... it's NOT always runway heading so you need to listen out for their instructions before departing.

#3 As Dan mention we talk about this in the user guide... again, FS handles AI traffic, not PF3

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martinlest
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:30 pm
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I still get odd behaviour, as per my #1, but it may well be FS9 and there's not much PF3 can do about it - again, just now, taking off from Amsetrdam EHAM, I was told to wait for traffic at rwy 06 (fine), the to line up and wait (great)... but when I get to the end of the runway (it's a bit of a taxi along the runway itself), I hear SATC telling the AI a/c behind me also to line up and wait (not so great). A half minute later ATC gives me take off clearance..

I need to check the other points.. when you update PF3 again so that the ATC log window will open and remember its size/position on my 2nd. monitor (as does remote text and the TGS window) I'll more easily be able to look back and see if I missed any instruction. (The a/c I am flying now have a lot of cabin engine noise and it's easy to miss ATC. (I tried to have the Remote Text window stay 'on top' (of my FS Navigator map) on the 2nd. monitor, but it won't do so once I switch to full screen mode for FS9, only in windowed mode).


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:36 pm
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martinlest wrote:
I still get odd behaviour, as per my #1, but it may well be FS9 and there's not much PF3 can do about it - again, just now, taking off from Amsetrdam EHAM, I was told to wait for traffic at rwy 06 (fine), the to line up and wait (great)... but when I get to the end of the runway (it's a bit of a taxi along the runway itself), I hear SATC telling the AI a/c behind me also to line up and wait (not so great). A half minute later ATC gives me take off clearance..

I need to check the other points.. when you update PF3 again so that the ATC log window will open and remember its size/position on my 2nd. monitor (as does remote text and the TGS window) I'll more easily be able to look back and see if I missed any instruction. (The a/c I am flying now have a lot of cabin engine noise and it's easy to miss ATC. (I tried to have the Remote Text window stay 'on top' (of my FS Navigator map) on the 2nd. monitor, but it won't do so once I switch to full screen mode for FS9, only in windowed mode).
It depends on how well the afcad was written if you have to taxi down a runway for take-off. That can cause another AI to encroach. But if PF3 says line-up and wait don't unless the runway is clear.

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martinlest
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:02 pm
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It's Cloud9 Amsterdam scenery, should be OK... the runway was clear when I entered it, but as I say, an AI a/c behind me was cleared to line up before I was given T/O permission


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:00 am
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martinlest wrote:
It's Cloud9 Amsterdam scenery, should be OK... the runway was clear when I entered it, but as I say, an AI a/c behind me was cleared to line up before I was given T/O permission
Should be OK. Bear in mind Amsterdam is a complex airport. That said if the afcad isn't drawn correctly you can have problems. But always make sure that there is nothing on the rwy if PF3 ask you to line-up and wait. PF3 has to play catch up with the sim and the AI follow the default instructions. The default is very slick and so can cause a timing issue with PF3.

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martinlest
Post subject: Re: A few observations/quirks ..
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:59 pm
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This (#1) is still happening at different airports - payware airports from respected designers as well as freeware. ATC tells me to line up and wait, which I do. They then tell the aircraft behind me to do the same whilst I am stilol waiting for T/O instructions.

I doubt it's an AFCAD problem - AFACD2 shows no issues anyway. I tend to 'zap' the encroaching a/c with the FSUIPC facility and then I do get T/O clearance. Next time I will test whether I get T/O clearance if I leave the AI plane to go through mine and see what happens.

I do wait until the runway is clear before I enter - but there are still problems with 'catch up' as you said above. On this occasion, T/O clearance for the a/c before me was given as it was lifting off. Is that part of the same issue?

Kills any semblance one might have of 'reality' of course. :(


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