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drumsart
Post subject: About request visual approach...
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:53 pm
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Hi,

Please, would it be possible to add the option for a visual approach ?

-I know that there is already a radar vector approach. It is accurate when the track has an ILS or vor / adf.

-However if the track has no vor/adf /ILS, actually the approach leads me to a point offset to the left or right of runway then asking me to contact the tower when I am "intercept course" (logical before to intercept a Loc but not in the case where there is no Loc or not Nav) instead of point me in line in front of the runway (+-same heading) and eventually ask me to report runway in sight.

Thank you in advance,

Regards,

Richard Portier


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pschlute
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:51 pm
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Press the number 1 key to request "cleared to finals at pilots discretion"

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Peter


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drumsart
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:07 pm
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pschlute wrote:
Press the number 1 key to request "cleared to finals at pilots discretion"
I know that, I was talking and asking about : vector by Approach Control for visual approach or Approach Control to runway without navaid, Ils and so on...

In the case of Approach Control to runway without navaid, Ils and so... the control is supposed to spot me in line in front of the runway (+-same heading) and eventually ask me to report runway in sight.

Thanks and Regards,

Richard Portier


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drumsart
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:08 pm
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Hi,

I would have liked a opinion from Dave if it's possible.

Thanks and Regards,

Richard Portier


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:00 pm
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According to my real world advisor there are many reasons why you could not request a visual approach... one of which is you must have to have the airport in sight, you couldn't request a visual approach and then expect ATC to vector you into a position where you are aligned with the runway. It wouldn't happen

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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mach2000
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:29 pm
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dmarch wrote:
According to my real world advisor there are many reasons why you could not request a visual approach... one of which is you must have to have the airport in sight, you couldn't request a visual approach and then expect ATC to vector you into a position where you are aligned with the runway. It wouldn't happen
You may want to find a different real-world advisor, because everything you just stated is incorrect. You don't need the runway in sight to request a visual approach... you only need it in sight to be cleared for it. Here's what the FAA's Airmen's Information Manual has to say about it:

5−4−23. Visual Approach

a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight
plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and
clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have
either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft
in sight. This approach must be authorized and
controlled by the appropriate air traffic control
facility. Reported weather at the airport must have a
ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or
greater. ATC may authorize this type approach when
it will be operationally beneficial. Visual approaches
are an IFR procedure conducted under IFR in visual
meteorological conditions. Cloud clearance
requirements of 14 CFR Section 91.155 are not
applicable, unless required by operation
specifications.

b. Operating to an Airport Without Weather
Reporting Service. ATC will advise the pilot when
weather is not available at the destination airport.
ATC may initiate a visual approach provided there is
a reasonable assurance that weather at the airport is a
ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or
greater (e.g., area weather reports, PIREPs, etc.).

c. Operating to an Airport With an Operating
Control Tower.

Aircraft may be authorized to
conduct a visual approach to one runway while other
aircraft are conducting IFR or VFR approaches to
another parallel, intersecting, or converging runway.
When operating to airports with parallel runways
separated by less than 2,500 feet, the succeeding
aircraft must report sighting the preceding aircraft
unless standard separation is being provided by ATC.
When operating to parallel runways separated by at
least 2,500 feet but less than 4,300 feet, controllers
will clear/vector aircraft to the final at an angle not
greater than 30 degrees unless radar, vertical, or
visual separation is provided during the turn−on. The
purpose of the 30 degree intercept angle is to reduce
the potential for overshoots of the final and to
preclude side−by−side operations with one or both
aircraft in a belly−up configuration during the
turn−on. Once the aircraft are established within
30 degrees of final, or on the final, these operations
may be conducted simultaneously. When the parallel
runways are separated by 4,300 feet or more, or
intersecting/converging runways are in use, ATC
may authorize a visual approach after advising all
aircraft involved that other aircraft are conducting
operations to the other runway. This may be
accomplished through use of the ATIS.

d. Separation Responsibilities.

If the pilot has
the airport in sight but cannot see the aircraft to be
followed, ATC may clear the aircraft for a visual
approach; however, ATC retains both separation and
wake vortex separation responsibility. When visually
following a preceding aircraft, acceptance of the
visual approach clearance constitutes acceptance of
pilot responsibility for maintaining a safe approach
interval and adequate wake turbulence separation.

e. A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore
has no missed approach segment. If a go around is
necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at
controlled airports will be issued an appropriate
advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower. At
uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to remain
clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as
possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the
aircraft is expected to remain clear of clouds and
contact ATC as soon as possible for further clearance.
Separation from other IFR aircraft will be maintained
under these circumstances.

f. Visual approaches reduce pilot/controller
workload and expedite traffic by shortening flight
paths to the airport. It is the pilot’s responsibility to
advise ATC as soon as possible if a visual approach
is not desired.


g. Authorization to conduct a visual approach is an
IFR authorization and does not alter IFR flight plan
cancellation responsibility.
REFERENCE−
AIM, Canceling IFR Flight Plan, Paragraph 5−1−15.

h. Radar service is automatically terminated,
without advising the pilot, when the aircraft is
instructed to change to advisory frequency.


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:09 pm
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Quote:
You may want to find a different real-world advisor, because everything you just stated is incorrect. You don't need the runway in sight to request a visual approach... you only need it in sight to be cleared for it. Here's what the FAA's Airmen's Information Manual has to say about it:
Sorry, we're talking CAA ;)

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Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:40 pm
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Posts: 980
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
mach2000 wrote:
dmarch wrote:
According to my real world advisor there are many reasons why you could not request a visual approach... one of which is you must have to have the airport in sight, you couldn't request a visual approach and then expect ATC to vector you into a position where you are aligned with the runway. It wouldn't happen
You may want to find a different real-world advisor, because everything you just stated is incorrect. You don't need the runway in sight to request a visual approach... you only need it in sight to be cleared for it.
Oh Really!!! That seems a contradictory. However the ICAO regulations are quite clear. You cannot request a visual approach if the runway is not in sight. You cannot make a request for a visual landing and then be vectored all over the territory.
You can be vectored and "then" request a visual approach if the runway is in sight and remains so.

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:05 pm
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Posts: 980
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
vololiberista wrote:
mach2000 wrote:
dmarch wrote:
According to my real world advisor there are many reasons why you could not request a visual approach... one of which is you must have to have the airport in sight, you couldn't request a visual approach and then expect ATC to vector you into a position where you are aligned with the runway. It wouldn't happen
You may want to find a different real-world advisor, because everything you just stated is incorrect. You don't need the runway in sight to request a visual approach... you only need it in sight to be cleared for it.
Oh Really!!! That seems a contradictory. However the ICAO regulations are quite clear. You cannot request a visual approach if the runway is not in sight. You cannot make a request for a visual landing and then be vectored all over the territory.
You can be vectored and "then" request a visual approach if the runway is in sight and remains so.
You have to understand that in aviation there are two regulatory bodies one for N. America, the FAA and one for the rest of the world, ICAO. So that you can compare this is what the ICAO says
7.5.1 Vectors are given to arriving flights to position them onto a pilot-interpreted final approach aid.
or to a point from which a radar assisited approach can be made
or to a point from which a visual approach can be made. A request for a visual approach cannot be made if the runway is not in sight.

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mach2000
Post subject: Re: About request visual approach...
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:29 am
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Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 am
 
vololiberista wrote:
Oh Really!!! That seems a contradictory. However the ICAO regulations are quite clear. You cannot request a visual approach if the runway is not in sight. You cannot make a request for a visual landing and then be vectored all over the territory.
You can be vectored and "then" request a visual approach if the runway is in sight and remains so.
Yes, Really !!! Not contradictory at all... there's a big difference between requesting a visual approach and actually receiving a clearance. If you request a visual, you are still IFR. ATC can vector you to the moon and back if they need to... how else can they ensure separation before the clearance is issued? In the U.S., if the pilot sees the traffic he's to follow, ATC can even clear for the visual approach when the pilot has not reported the runway/airport in sight.

I'm well aware of ICAO and know the differences. What publication contains the information you provided? I don't see anything in ICAO Annex 2 or 11 that says anything about it. For the record, ICAO is not a rule-making body... it's part of the UN and has about as much authority as the UN. ICAO provides standards and recommended practices which most member nations agree to adopt... but in the end, each country develops and enforces its own set of rules. Dave mentioned CAA, so maybe the UK does have more restrictions (with the crappy weather up there, I can't really blame them)... but even if that's the case, to make such a blanket statement is just not true.


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