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Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...

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drumsart
Post subject: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:33 pm
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Hi,

Today new flight from LFBD to LFRS.

-Cruise level in FP : FL100

-During cruise I asked for FL80 with command "L2". Atc gave me FL90. In fact L2=-1000ft, L3=-2000ft and so on...Not like in the user guide.

-So, finally I obtain FL80. During approach PF3 gave me vectors to Ils03 and asked me to descend and maintain FL80 !!??

-During all the approach PF3 never asked me to descend. I stayed at FL80 during all the approach.

Clearly it seems there is a problem with altitude monitoring like I wrote in a previous topic.

-Concerning the "L2" command, addition to the fact L2=-1000ft instead =-2000ft, PF3 gave me the arrival Atis ! Normally the arrival Atis is asked only with the "2" command.

Enclosed the Zip Logs.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Richard Portier

Attachments
Logs.zip
(623.75 KiB) Downloaded 192 times


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:58 pm
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Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 8:41 pm
Location: LIMZ
 
drumsart wrote:
Hi,

Today new flight from LFBD to LFRS.

-Cruise level in FP : FL100

-During cruise I asked for FL80 with command "L2". Atc gave me FL90. In fact L2=-1000ft, L3=-2000ft and so on...Not like in the user guide.

-So, finally I obtain FL80. During approach PF3 gave me vectors to Ils03 and asked me to descend and maintain FL80 !!??

-During all the approach PF3 never asked me to descend. I stayed at FL80 during all the approach.

Clearly it seems there is a problem with altitude monitoring like I wrote in a previous topic.

-Concerning the "L2" command, addition to the fact L2=-1000ft instead =-2000ft, PF3 gave me the arrival Atis ! Normally the arrival Atis is asked only with the "2" command.

Enclosed the Zip Logs.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Richard Portier
In addition to your zip logs what was your FAF altitude in the options #2 tweaks page? And had you altered that in the SID/STAR page for LFRS?

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:55 pm
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm
 
drumsart wrote:
-Cruise level in FP : FL100
-During cruise I asked for FL80 with command "L2". Atc gave me FL90. In fact L2=-1000ft, L3=-2000ft and so on...Not like in the user guide.

-Concerning the "L2" command, addition to the fact L2=-1000ft instead =-2000ft, PF3 gave me the arrival Atis ! Normally the arrival Atis is asked only with the "2" command.
This looks like PF3 saw a key press of "2" and a key press of "L" (either because of the order you pressed the keys or because PF3 or Windows mis-detected them).
As you wrote: "2" requests ACARS ATIS.
And pressing and releasing "L" (without pressing and releasing a number between these two steps) is like L1, i.e. request -1000ft.

But this wouldn't explain L3=-2000ft ... maybe you were more than 500ft above the altitude you thought you are? I don't know the transition altitude for the area you flew in, but I assume you were higher. And having your altimeter at the local QNH setting instead of 1013 can easily make a difference of more than 500ft. I know, because I often forget that :)

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drumsart
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:17 pm
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Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:07 pm
 
vololiberista wrote:
drumsart wrote:
Hi,

Today new flight from LFBD to LFRS.

-Cruise level in FP : FL100

-During cruise I asked for FL80 with command "L2". Atc gave me FL90. In fact L2=-1000ft, L3=-2000ft and so on...Not like in the user guide.

-So, finally I obtain FL80. During approach PF3 gave me vectors to Ils03 and asked me to descend and maintain FL80 !!??

-During all the approach PF3 never asked me to descend. I stayed at FL80 during all the approach.

Clearly it seems there is a problem with altitude monitoring like I wrote in a previous topic.

-Concerning the "L2" command, addition to the fact L2=-1000ft instead =-2000ft, PF3 gave me the arrival Atis ! Normally the arrival Atis is asked only with the "2" command.

Enclosed the Zip Logs.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Richard Portier
In addition to your zip logs what was your FAF altitude in the options #2 tweaks page? And had you altered that in the SID/STAR page for LFRS?
-FAF Alt=3000/FAF Dis=10
-Altered nothing about SID/STAR

Regards,

Richard Portier


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drumsart
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:44 pm
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Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:07 pm
 
ThomasAH wrote:
drumsart wrote:
-Cruise level in FP : FL100
-During cruise I asked for FL80 with command "L2". Atc gave me FL90. In fact L2=-1000ft, L3=-2000ft and so on...Not like in the user guide.

-Concerning the "L2" command, addition to the fact L2=-1000ft instead =-2000ft, PF3 gave me the arrival Atis ! Normally the arrival Atis is asked only with the "2" command.
This looks like PF3 saw a key press of "2" and a key press of "L" (either because of the order you pressed the keys or because PF3 or Windows mis-detected them).
As you wrote: "2" requests ACARS ATIS.
And pressing and releasing "L" (without pressing and releasing a number between these two steps) is like L1, i.e. request -1000ft.

But this wouldn't explain L3=-2000ft ... maybe you were more than 500ft above the altitude you thought you are? I don't know the transition altitude for the area you flew in, but I assume you were higher. And having your altimeter at the local QNH setting instead of 1013 can easily make a difference of more than 500ft. I know, because I often forget that :)
-Concerning the "L2" procedure I followed the user guide : maintain press on key "L" then I press and release the key "2" then release the key "L"
-About L2=-1000 and so, the transition altitude was 4000ft and of course my altimeter setting was 1013.

Beyond the "L2" problem, which seems to me important for a Atc program is not to ask me to go down to FL80 while I am already at. More important is to let me at FL80 when intercept the loc at 10nm of the runway !

To save time then I suggest you please if you have time of course to try the flight plan attached, taking the same options as me (Cruise FL100 and ask to Center FL80). So we can quickly see if this is a problem caused by Windows or PF3.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Richard Portier

Attachments
IFR Merignac to Nantes Atlantique.zip
(912 Bytes) Downloaded 188 times


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:08 am
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm
 
I have saved the flight plan so I can try it when I have some time, but I don't think this is related to the flight plan.
Please look at the "But this wouldn't explain" part ... did you reset the altimeter to 1013/29.92 after being cleared to a flight level?

If not, and your altimeter is still at a different setting, your altimeter might show you at 10000ft, but PF3 and other aircraft would see you at e.g. 10876ft ... when you request -2000ft this point, PF3 will round this up to 11000ft, subtract 2000ft and clear you for FL90.
(PF3 calculates from the current altitude, not the flight level you were previously cleared to)

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drumsart
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:27 am
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Posts: 154
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ThomasAH wrote:
I have saved the flight plan so I can try it when I have some time, but I don't think this is related to the flight plan.
Please look at the "But this wouldn't explain" part ... did you reset the altimeter to 1013/29.92 after being cleared to a flight level?

If not, and your altimeter is still at a different setting, your altimeter might show you at 10000ft, but PF3 and other aircraft would see you at e.g. 10876ft ... when you request -2000ft this point, PF3 will round this up to 11000ft, subtract 2000ft and clear you for FL90.
(PF3 calculates from the current altitude, not the flight level you were previously cleared to)
Thomas, read again my post, I answered "and of course my altimeter setting was 1013" :) :P

Concerning flying the FP it's just to verify that the no descend order from the Center (described in my previous posts) is a PF3 glitch.

Thanks,

Regards,

Richard Portier


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:51 am
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Location: LIMZ
 
ThomasAH wrote:
. maybe you were more than 500ft above the altitude you thought you are? .
Richard you were at an altitude of 10574 when you requested an altitude change so that could be a factor as the altitude was rounded up. 11-2=9 more or less :lol:

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:12 pm
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Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm
 
drumsart wrote:
Thomas, read again my post, I answered "and of course my altimeter setting was 1013" :) :P
Oops, now I see it, too :geek:
drumsart wrote:
Concerning flying the FP it's just to verify that the no descend order from the Center (described in my previous posts) is a PF3 glitch.
Maybe the solution for viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1835#p9679 will solve this one, too.
When loading your flight plan, PF3 3.0.1 claims LFRS to be at 5000ft, not the 90ft it should have.
So I guess waiting for 3.0.2 (and a corresponding updated demo) would be the best.

Dave, is this the same problem?

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: Higher/Lower altitudes don't work like expected...
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:07 am
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Looks that way. I may get the update out tomorrow.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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