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PF3 First Flight - A Disaster

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If you are reporting an issue with PF3 please remember to Zip and attach the Debug_Monitor.log file from your PF3\Logs folder. Thank you.

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alpha3
Post subject: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:14 am
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I'm a "technical simmer" who tried the demo and liked it. A Quick ATC flight from KSEA to KPDX and all seemed promising. A vast amount of features waiting to be unlocked by a new and supported ATC program. I bought the software and sat down for a short test flight. KJFK (FSDT) to KIAD (Flightbeam). I compiled the PF3 database, had PFPX compile a flight plan, and started with the PMDG 737-800 with no AI traffic. The PFPX flight plan had only one waypoint, which is also the beginning of the KIAD Hyper Six STAR. I load the flight plan and this is what it looks like in PF3:

Waypoint CurAlt
1 KJFK 13
2 XXX 32000
3 RBV 32000
4 XXX 16000
5 KIAD 313

I wondered what the XXXs are. The manual explains these are internally generated by PF3. Fair enough. But, I don't know what or where they are. Regardless, I gave the authors the benefit of the doubt. In the SIDs/STARS page, I designated RBV as the beginning of the STAR. Once in the airplane at KJFK Terminal 4, all worked well. Clearance, ground and TGS (audio only). I takeoff and I'm handed to departure. Interesting vector and step climb to FL270. All is good. Once over RBV I'm told to "navigate at pilot's discretion (believing this means to the STAR)". Then, at least 100nm before my NGX FMC indicated TOD, I'm told to descend to descend to 16000ft. Ok, a little odd, but I do it. Then silence. Then as I navigate at 16000ft per FMC LNAV on the STAR route, the controller says that I'm 23 miles off the airway. Wait, what?? What airway and how does this program know anything about the STAR??? (this reminds me of the ridiculous FSX core ATC). Then more silence. I continue at 16000ft as my FMC waypoint altitudes are now dropping incrementally below my altitude. And, more silence. In the end, this program would have left me at 16000ft until I ran out of fuel. KIAD came and went underneath me without another word from ATC. No descent instruction, no hand-off to approach. It's almost as if the program didn't even recognize it's position in relation to the destination airport.

So, I gave the program a second chance. Again, I designated RBV as the beginning of the STAR. This time I started from KJFK Terminal 7. As I taxi out, I hear nothing from TGS for the entire taxi. There are also no runway crossing clearances from ground or no notification to contact tower when I get to the active departure runway. Nonetheless, I contact tower for takeoff clearance and receive it. Takeoff and climb are normal handoffs. Once I get to the unknown location of XXX, I am again told to descend to 16000ft and the same nightmare happens all over again. This command to descend to 16000ft is the last meaningful thing said by ATC except one blurb about again being off course (even though navigating precisely to the FMC).

The next time I try by not designating any STAR entry point in the hopes that ATC might guide me. Nope. Same thing. The only difference is that when I reach RBV there is no clearance for the "Sierra Tango" approach (generic for the STAR). Instead I hear nothing until being instructed to descend to 16000ft for the next incarnation of likely fuel exhaustion.

In short, the authors released a piece of software with some really nice bells and whistles that has one big problem, the core ATC engine is broken. I researched the manual in every way, so I would love someone to prove me in error, because a well-done and currently supported ATC program is what FSX is most in need of.


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:59 am
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Did you update to 3.0.1?

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:16 am
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P.S.: If you already had 3.0.1, send logs to Dave so he can check what the problem is.

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Dave March
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:38 am
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Sorry you had such an issue but as Thomas said please ZIP and email all the files in your PF3\lOGS folder, otherwise I have no way of knowing what happened.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:36 pm
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Is it correct that your fpl should only have one waypoint? It's about 400nm chocks to chocks.
The xxxs are control centre boundaries and look correct.
This fpl is using airac cycle 1602 and contains a bit more than one wypt :lol:
Try this and see if you have a better flight. It would seem that pfpx isn't that good at compiling fpls!
Cruise altitude between FL200 and FL20
KJFK (0.0nm) -SID-> PUT (117.7nm) -J42-> HFD (154.4nm) -V3->
YALER (172.4nm) -V99-> SORRY (177.7nm) -V3-> RACEY (186.4nm) -V3->
CMK (205.7nm) -J75-> DUEYS (218.1nm) -J75-> JERSY (253.0nm) -J75->
SBJ (273.0nm) -V3-> BIGGY (287.4nm) -J75-> COPES (312.7nm) -J75->
MXE (331.3nm) -STAR-> KIAD (432.7nm)

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:53 pm
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vololiberista wrote:
It would seem that pfpx isn't that good at compiling fpls!
It is great, because it allows you the flexibility to do simple flight plans for testing purposes.
Of course it will shout at you in great lengths if you validate your flight plan, but you have the freedom to ignore that.

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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:30 pm
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ThomasAH wrote:
vololiberista wrote:
It would seem that pfpx isn't that good at compiling fpls!
It is great, because it allows you the flexibility to do simple flight plans for testing purposes.
Of course it will shout at you in great lengths if you validate your flight plan, but you have the freedom to ignore that.
Actually I've seen Froogle use it. But with some flight plans with just one wypt one has expect the unexpected!

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alpha3
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:21 pm
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ThomasAH wrote:
Did you update to 3.0.1?
Yes.


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:31 pm
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alpha3 wrote:
ThomasAH wrote:
Did you update to 3.0.1?
Yes.
Good. Dave enabled attaching logs to posts here in the forum, so you have the choice how to send them.

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alpha3
Post subject: Re: PF3 First Flight - A Disaster
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:05 am
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dmarch wrote:
Sorry you had such an issue but as Thomas said please ZIP and email all the files in your PF3\lOGS folder, otherwise I have no way of knowing what happened.
One reasons that I bought this program is for support. So thanks for responding. I have included the zipped "Logs" folder with the PFPX generated FP that I used in PF3. Note that I departed from KJFK Terminal 8 on the last flight and there was no TGS (nor any ground communication when crossing runways) as I indicated in my original email (I had, oddly enough, received TGS support when departing Terminal 4 on an earlier flight). So the TGS is another issue ... Anyone could attempt this same flight with the flight plan I included to replicate the issue.

Attachments
Logs.zip
(261.85 KiB) Downloaded 238 times


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