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PF3 and Concorde

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RayProudfoot
Post subject: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:11 pm
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Hi Dave,

I'm a long-standing Radar Contact user but the one thing it couldn't cope with was Concorde's Cruise/Climb mode.

Because it was the only aircraft that could fly above FL450 it was assigned a block altitude in real life. That meant it could vary its climb rate within that range in order to maintain Mach 2 and keep the temp on the nose below 127C. It might climb at only 50fpm or even descend on occasions but the overall trend was a gentle climb as the aircraft became lighter.

How does PF3 cope with that situation? If I filed a plan with a Flight Level of 600 would PF3 chastise me if I failed to reach that level? Concorde could only reach that FL rarely and 560-580 was more common.

Unfortunately a 200nm limit with the evaluation version won't allow me to test this.

Cheers,
Ray.


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:26 pm
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There has been at least one other Concorde flyer in the beta team, so I think it generally works.
You can either request higher/lower altitudes during flight or you can set your waypoint altitudes to your liking, which are saved between flights.

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Dave Leesley
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:45 pm
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Hi Ray,
Once you have been given flight clearance to say FL540 which i chose to use for my flights,i didn't get chastised by ATC,maybe just one or two reminders if i was on same flight level for any length of time during climb but, once you was climbing and it can be painfully slow,ATC won't hassle you and creating a climb/descent profile helps too!!

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RayProudfoot
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:45 pm
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Thomas / Dave,

Thanks for your replies. I can't set waypoint altitudes because I can't guarantee I will reach that altitude. Will PF3 nag me if I fail to maintain a minimum climb rate? RC4 requires a minimum 100fps to keep the controller happy.

So if I file FL600 (which is required for FS Labs Concorde) and don't reach it before it's time to start the descent procedure you are suggesting I'll not get nagged unduly? That's encouraging.

What about the descent? Does PF3 calculate when you need to start down or do you request it? As you probably know Concorde had to slow down before the descent started. I wouldn't want to be nagged again if I'm decelerating but not descending.

I suppose what I'm asking for is a special procedure just for Concorde. :)

Cheers,
Ray


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pschlute
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:07 pm
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Ray

PF3 is much less keen on nagging than the default atc. I have often used a very shallow descent of 300 fpm and do not get nagged. In addition there is an option set a minimum time before you get an altitude nag. I usually set this to two minutes but it can be set to 10 minutes or more so it should not be an issue. Same goes for a heading change nag

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Peter


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pschlute
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:19 pm
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I have done many flights with sstsim Concorde and mostly without an atc program for the cruise-climb issues you mentioned.

I will be conducting some tests when I get time to come up with the best approach to fly Concorde with PF3. The new aircraft profiles which govern when atc will instruct a climb descent based on the v/s profile you select should mean that Concorde will get sensible climb / descent instructions. Especially if you set the altitudes correctly when editing in the waypoint /altitudes page before you connect to FS

The one issue of setting a final cruise altitude of FL600 is how PFE will behave if you never reach it ! It may be better to set a lower one say FL 520 and deal with the nags by delaying.

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RayProudfoot
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:55 pm
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for that very useful info. I look forward to reading how you get on with a flight.

Could you test using FL600 please just so I (and others interested) can gauge how well the program copes with an unusual aircraft.

It would be interesting to know how it copes when Concorde descends rapidly once subsonic. Rates of >6000fpm are normal but you will be aware of that as a seasoned pilot.

RC4 had options to request deviations for weather (lateral watchdog was switched off) and turbulence (vertical watchdog was switched off). Does PF3 have those options?

Thanks,
Ray


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pschlute
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:39 am
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RayProudfoot wrote:
Hi Peter,



Rates of >6000fpm are normal but you will be aware of that as a seasoned pilot.

RC4 had options to request deviations for weather (lateral watchdog was switched off) and turbulence (vertical watchdog was switched off). Does PF3 have those options?

Thanks,
Ray
Only a seasoned sim pilot I am afraid. The one time i did a lesson in a Katana Diamond from Elstree I was handed control from the instructor and after about 10 minutes we encountered a patch of turbulance which resulted in both his and my heads making contact with the canopy despite our harnesses, accompanied by much use of the F-word by me.


If you need to deviate from the plan use the direct to function and select the following waypoint. You can fly to it any way you wish (deviation)

You can request a higher or lower altitude at any time during your cruise.

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Peter


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RayProudfoot
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:23 am
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Thanks for that. World of difference between the real world and the sim world eh? ;)


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: PF3 and Concorde
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:45 am
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Ray,
Also when you set up your aircraft profile for Concorde remember to include a mimimum approach speed. In the user manual I suggested 190kts. But it's your choice as long as you don't stall :o. You might find it useful to add a mile or two onto the FAP as well as you might need a bit more distance to slow down.

In terms of climbing and/or descending slowly, the distance between waypoints also helps. On one fpl (not for Concorde) I have a wypt distance of 100nm and I am told to descend to FL160 from a cruise of FL240. So I have time to drift down at 1,000fpm.

PF3 is (as was PFE also) much lighter on the "nagging" than RC4 and there's no grand jury to face if you bust a speed limit or altitude!!!

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