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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:44 pm 
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The approach and landing section of this flight turned into a disaster. Well, there was no landing! Unfortunately, the controller didn't seem to realise that it wasn't wise to fly at 4000' or 3000' into mountains that were at least 7000'!

I couldn't seem to get round this and also couldn't find the instruction to turn PF3 off!

Here's the log.

John


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:21 pm 
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John, I haven't had a look at your log yet but you haven't actually said what the problem was, other than the landing didn't happen. You also mention mountains but PF3 doesn't know anything about mountains. If you're flying into a mountainous range then you need to ensure your approach is planned correctly.... either using a STAR or by setting altitudes accordingly

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:52 am 
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The problem was Dave that in a straight line the approach to the airport and the airport itself is in quite a narrow valley which itself was 4000' high. The ATC was trying to get me down to 4000' then 3000' to turn into the mountains that were at least 7000' high.

Since I wasn't familiar with where I was going I couldn't plan the approach ahead of time. I had to trust the controllers to do that but if they don't know either it is inevitable that the flight will fail.

Surely, if the controllers don't know the altitudes of the land/air they're controlling, perhaps they shouldn't be telling the pilot the altitude they want him to fly at.

Have a look at the log when you can and you'll see what I mean.

John


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:05 am 
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Quote:
Surely, if the controllers don't know the altitudes of the land/air they're controlling, perhaps they shouldn't be telling the pilot the altitude they want him to fly at.
In PF3's case you need to tell them to not tell you where to fly :)
(in the real world controllers may not be able to vector you either, because of limited radar coverage in mountainous areas)
Quote:
Have a look at the log when you can and you'll see what I mean.
Dave would need the debug_monitor.log for your flight, not one of the TGS logs.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Quote:
The problem was Dave that in a straight line the approach to the airport and the airport itself is in quite a narrow valley which itself was 4000' high. The ATC was trying to get me down to 4000' then 3000' to turn into the mountains that were at least 7000' high.

Since I wasn't familiar with where I was going I couldn't plan the approach ahead of time. I had to trust the controllers to do that but if they don't know either it is inevitable that the flight will fail.
If you are going to be flying in a mountainous area, you should become familiar with the area and make a plan. The best way to do that is review the charts. In this case, PF3's vectoring may not work out well due to the terrain and you may need to fly a published procedure at pilot's discretion. It's more work but it's worth it. At the following link (lower part of page) check out the ZONNA ONE arrival chart which you can use to plan your approach to the airport from the east.

https://skyvector.com/airport/TUS/Tucso ... al-Airport

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:29 pm 
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That's a good idea Dan. Thanks.

I've just had a similar problem today with the flight from KTUS Tucson to KSAN San Diego where you come over the high desert area and then mountains down to the coastal areas. At least this time I was ready for it and ignored the Controllers instructions.

Of course, the other way would be to fly VFR. Failing that, as I'm likely to be flying in the States and Canada from some time now, I'll need to sort something out because they're all mountainous and massive ones at that.

I know I should know all this. I've been with PF3 long enough but my memory isn't what it was. Thats my excuse anyway! :roll:

John


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Quote:
...but my memory isn't what it was...
How do you know, if you can't remember? :lol:

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Without a log it didn't happen!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:29 pm
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Quote:
Surely, if the controllers don't know the altitudes of the land/air they're controlling, perhaps they shouldn't be telling the pilot the altitude they want him to fly at.
Correct. And you can stop them from telling you where to fly by activating the STAR option, which I recommend to always do when flying into an airport in mountainous terrain.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Ok-I'll have a look see at the 'Star Option' whatever that is. Be prepared for more questions! :?

John


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