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need help with flaps

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mllgrennman
Post subject: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:02 am
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The B 757 profile does not deploy flaps 1 on approach until about 170 kts...but the performance editor for that profile shows flaps 1 are supposed to come down between 204kts and 232 depending on weight...


also he kept putting my gear and flaps up on approach but well deal with that later...


why is he missing his cue for flaps1?


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mllgrennman
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:13 am
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This is the part of the log where he called for F1 at 176 kts...but the key says flaps 1 should be at 228 kts

17/07/15 14:09:33: (12:04:29) - Gear Down Confirmed at 204 knts 19522' 14278' (RA)
17/07/15 14:09:34: (12:04:32) - Monitor Cruise
17/07/15 14:10:09: (12:05:07) - No FD User Files found - Function not active
17/07/15 14:10:09: (12:05:07) - Monitor Cruise
17/07/15 14:10:21: (12:05:17) - Transition Altitude check called at 18000
17/07/15 14:10:23: (12:05:17) - Barometric pressure set to 29.93
17/07/15 14:10:23: (12:05:17) - Monitor Cruise
17/07/15 14:11:00: (12:05:58) - No FD User Files found - Function not active
17/07/15 14:11:00: (12:05:58) - Monitor Cruise
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - IAS dropped below Clean Speed: ( IAS= 176 Clean Speed= 177
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - GetLandingData Called from Monitor Cruise VSI= -2011 (+climbing -descending)
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - GetLandingData Routine Accessed
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Landing Settings Calculated
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - ---------------------------
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - GLW = 187K lbs
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 1 - 228
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 5 - 202
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 15 - 177
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 20 - 166
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 25 - 154
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 30 - 147
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - ---------------------------
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Checking RA Calls in GPWS
17/07/15 14:11:01: (12:05:59) - Flaps 1 Called at 176 knts 16573' 11886' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:02: (12:05:59) - VCP responds with Flaps
17/07/15 14:11:04: (12:05:59) - Flaps 1 Confirmed at 176 knts 16573' 11886' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:06: (12:06:02) - Flaps 5 Called at 176 knts 16462' 11713' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:07: (12:06:02) - VCP responds with Flaps
17/07/15 14:11:09: (12:06:02) - Flaps 5 Confirmed at 176 knts 16462' 11713' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:10: (12:06:07) - Flaps 15 Called at 175 knts 16317' 11197' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:11: (12:06:07) - VCP responds with Flaps
17/07/15 14:11:14: (12:06:07) - Flaps 15 Confirmed at 175 knts 16317' 11197' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:52: (12:06:49) - No FD User Files found - Function not active
17/07/15 14:11:55: (12:06:52) - Flaps 20 Called at 167 knts 14819' 9706' (RA)
17/07/15 14:11:56: (12:06:52) - VCP responds with Flaps
17/07/15 14:11:58: (12:06:52) - Flaps 20 Confirmed at 167 knts 14819' 9706' (RA)
17/07/15 14:12:42: (12:07:40) - No FD User Files found - Function not active
17/07/15 14:14:05: (12:08:56) - 'Descent Briefing' Cabin Announcement played
17/07/15 14:14:05: (12:08:56) - Flight Mode Changed to 'Descent'
17/07/15 14:14:05: (12:08:56) - Descended below trigger altitude of 10799
17/07/15 14:14:05: (12:08:56) - GetLandingData called from MonitorCruise1
17/07/15 14:14:05: (12:08:56) - GetLandingData Routine Skip - Weight Change < 10K
17/07/15 14:14:24: (12:09:21) - No FD User Files found - Function not active
17/07/15 14:28:00: (12:22:30) - IAS Increasing - Last: 169 - Now: 175
17/07/15 14:28:00: (12:22:30) - GetTakeoffData Accessed
17/07/15 14:28:00: (12:22:30) - Clean Speed trigger ARMED at -163 Actual: 165
17/07/15 14:28:00: (12:22:30) - Takeoff settings calculated as follows


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:36 am
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Your altitude was too high to be in 'descent mode' as you began to reduce your speed. Had you been below approximately 10K your flaps would have worked as expected. You speed continued to drop and when it fell below the 'clean speed' for your aircraft descent mode was then triggered and flaps called accordingly.

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Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

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mllgrennman
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:15 am
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So Flaps were not deployed because I was not in "descent mode?"

Does not descent mode get activated once I begin my descent?

I'm going to need flaps 1 to help slow down way before 10000Ft.

Thanks.


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:45 am
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mllgrennman wrote:
So Flaps were not deployed because I was not in "descent mode?"
Correct
Quote:
Does not descent mode get activated once I begin my descent?
No, descent mode is triggered under various conditions:-

1 . After the ‘cruise briefing’ cabin announcement has been made and the
aircraft descends below the DescentAltitude trigger

2. Subject to condition #1 and If aircraft drops below 2,000 (this was put
in place to cater for emergency landings after takeoff

3. If Flightmode is set to Landed (i.e. Aircraft actually touched down) and
now the airspeed is increasing and we’re climbing (+VSI)… to cater for
touch ‘n’ goes)

4. If ‘cruise briefing’ has not been played but aircraft descends below the
trigger altitude the announcement flag is bumped so the next one to
play will be the ‘approach briefing’

Note: The DescentAlt trigger is set to the highest altitude reached (to a
maximum of 1 2,000’) We then subtract a modifier which is 1 0% if the
DescentAlt is set to 1 2,000 (the max) or 20% if it’s less than 1 2,000. So if
cruising at 1 2,000 or above the trigger altitude is set to 1 0,800. If cruising at
6,000 the trigger altitude is set to 4,800

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

[ img ]


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mllgrennman
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:23 pm
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Why is the max 12000ft...Jets cruise in the 30's?

Is there a way to trigger descent mode once I begin my descent from such altutudes?


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:06 pm
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mllgrennman wrote:
Why is the max 12000ft...Jets cruise in the 30's?
Well it was really a descent/approach mode I guess.
mllgrennman wrote:
Is there a way to trigger descent mode once I begin my descent from such altutudes?
Maybe this will help.... it's taken from the FDC version history document:-

ADDED a new option on the Select Aircraft page. You will notice
I have removed the AGL option next to Descent checks as in all
probability that would never be used and if it was it probably
shouldn't be <G>.
So, the 'or click here' displays a new PFE only message that
describes the new option. Basically if you enter an altitude and
choose MSL then everything works exactly as it does now. If you
select the new PFE Cruise option then the altitude you enter here is
subtracted from PFE's cruise altitude to give the altitude at which
Descent checks would be triggered.

This provides a means by which these checks will be automatically
adjusted for each of your PFE flights, even if the cruise altitude is
different in each one. There are a few provisos here... IF you select
to use this new option but decide not to use PFE then Descent
checks will be whatever you've entered, unless it is below the
Approach checks, in which case Descent checks will be readjusted
to be the same as Approach checks + 2000. Equally, if you have a
high figure in the Descent check and choose to use the PFE option...
if the Descent altitude is higher than the PFE cruise altitude it wll be
reset to PFE cruise altitude -2000.

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

[ img ]


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mllgrennman
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:49 pm
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Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:28 pm
 
so if i set the number of seconds in pfe to 999...descent mode in fdc will be activated when i start to descend based on pfe cruise altitude?

If so...where in pfe do i enter seconds?


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Dave March
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:54 pm
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Not sure where you got 'seconds' from?

All you have to do is enter the altitude in FDC below the PFE cruise you want to trigger descent mode. I.e. If PFE cruise is set to 30000 and you set 10000 in FDC your descent mode will be triggerd at 30000-10000=20000

_________________

Cheers

Dave March

Email: dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

I don't know if my memory is getting worse as I get older...
...I just can't remember how it used to be!

[ img ]


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mllgrennman
Post subject: Re: need help with flaps
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:16 pm
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Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:28 pm
 
where in fdc do i enter the altitude...do you mean in the select aircraft page---"descent checks begin at..."


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