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ATC and descent instructions

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martinlest
Post subject: ATC and descent instructions
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:47 pm
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Another little puzzler... (I post a lot here as I fly FS9+PFE pretty much every day, BTW. An addiction! Hope it's not getting too tiresome) ;)

This is an extract from my last log file. I wonder why ATC keep (I say 'keep' as this often happens) clearing me to descend to a certain altitude, but then seem to change their mind and instruct me to maintain another altitude, higher (which I have usually descended well beyond by that stage, so it means me changing back to a climb - often too near the airport to make much sense.

Is it a 'feature' or a 'bug'? I tend to just ignore it, but that kind of 'messes up the flight', from a realism point of view: it gets so I what to tell ATC what I really think of them! I don't want to turm off ATC 'nags' altogether, as a repetition or two can be useful if one hasn't heard the first time around.

Example (from FL200 cruise):

27/01/2016 18:06:57: 010 - Transcript: 'Aereotuy 7100 Descend to 10 thousand Altimeter is 2993'
27/01/2016 18:07:17: 260 - Checking compliance - Alt: 19910 sWPAlt: 10000 FlightType: 1 ATC_Timer: 0 AltTimer: 0 FSTime: 65237 AptSighted: 0 Handoff: 0
27/01/2016 18:07:54: 670 - Transcript: 'Aereotuy 7100 hold East on the 105 radial inbound to Mike Alpha Uniform maintain Flight Level 195 expect Clearance at 50'


To be honest, I am not even sure what all of the last message means, either!

Thanks!


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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: ATC and descent instructions
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:09 am
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martinlest wrote:
To be honest, I am not even sure what all of the last message means, either!
hold - you have to fly a hold (see e.g. Wikipedia:Holding (aeronautics))
105 radial inbound - you should fly towards (inbound) the VOR named MAU, but you need to intercept the 105 radial first (see image), then fly course 285°:
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when you reach the VOR, fly a pattern as shown in above Wikipedia page (or just do a 180° right turn to heading 105°, fly 2 minutes, then do another 180° right turn to heading 285°, you should be on the 105 radial again), repeat until ATC clears you to continue your flight.
expect Clearance at 50 - ATC expects you need to fly this holding pattern for the next 50 minutes
maintain Flight Level 195 - PFE thinks you currently are at this flight level (as shown in the log 37 seconds earlier) ... maybe it was busy with something else at this moment and did not notice you already descended further. Maybe someone else can comment here?

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martinlest
Post subject: Re: ATC and descent instructions
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:59 am
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Ah yes, I see now! It would be nice if there were more notice though (one thing in which PFE is normally so good, not saving altitude changes till the last seconds, as does the default FS9 ATC) , as these instructions always come too late to avoid a change from descent to climb. And fifty minutes?? In practice, 'resume own navigation' usually follows within a few minutes, fortunately...

Yes, if anyone else has any comments.. Thanks for the reply, and explanation...


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vololiberista
Post subject: Re: ATC and descent instructions
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:43 pm
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ThomasAH wrote:
martinlest wrote:
To be honest, I am not even sure what all of the last message means, either!
expect Clearance at 50 - ATC expects you need to fly this holding pattern for the next 50 minutes
This is an odd one as it actually means at time 50 minutes past the hour. So it would still be an inordinately long hold looking at the times of the log. I doubt very much that any ATC would hold anyone for 50 minutes. If I was told that I would ask to go to my alternate!
Download the holding pattern computer from here http://www.flightutilities.com/download_prg.aspx
and adacalc from here http://www.aero.sors.fr/adacalc.html Adacalc also has pattern diagrams but more importantly it calculates headings and leg times for holding patterns needed for wind correction.

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ThomasAH
Post subject: Re: ATC and descent instructions
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:41 pm
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Ah, right ... "at 50", not "in 50"

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